The Dr. is in!

28 Jul

I’ve mentioned before that on one of the message boards I read, there is a dating advice thread.  Since the board is primarily female and college-educated, there tend to be a lot of feminist-inspired dating mistakes, feminine overanalysis, and questionable advice.  For your reading enjoyment, I’ve compiled some of the most recent stuff.

Earlier this month, Female A, one of the board’s most prolific and well-liked posters who is internet famous outside of the board, posted that her mother had met a charming, extroverted young man at work who was brand new to town and had shown him A’s picture.  The young man was intrigued by the picture, and A’s mother, in true Mrs. Bennet fashion, started scheming to invite him over for dinner so he could meet A, who has not met anyone new in a long time.  The only problem is that the picture the young man saw is 13 years old, and A, by her own admission, no longer resembles the girl in the photo.  Most crucially, she is much heavier now.  A acknowledged that she didn’t think Young Man would be interested in her and that he could do much better than herself.  However, she has been in such a never-ending dry spell that she’s willing to cling to any shred of hope.

Any time a woman puts herself down to other women who like her, that is an automatic invitation for the other women to pile on with “don’t say that” compliments.  A 500-pound woman could tell her girlfriends, “No one will ever love me.  I’m too fat,” and whether or not the girlfriends secretly agreed with her, they would tell the fat girl, “Don’t say that!  That’s not true!  There’s someone for everyone!  You just need to find him!  Don’t give up!  You are the most loving and kind person I know and some man will be lucky to find you!”  It’s one of the unwritten rules of female friendship that when a friend denigrates herself, you must prop her up with praise, disregarding reality if necessary.

Anyhow, this is exactly what happened in the thread.  A lot of YOU STOP THAT RIGHT NOW, YOU ARE SO FUNNY AND SMART AND KIND, and GO FOR IT AND REPORT BACK!s.  So far there has been no reporting back, so I don’t know if Mom’s Dinner has happened, but Dr. Haley’s initial assessment is that things are going to go only so far as Mom’s Dinner and no further.  I’m guessing that Young Man is not going to like discovering that not only does A no longer resemble her picture, the main reason she no longer resembles it is because of her weight.  And she’s 13 years older.

Female B attends a church that a Nice Young Guy (whom I’ll call Brad) also attends.  They primarily see each other at church since they don’t live in the same town.  B has been harboring a crush on Brad for several months.  Finally they get to the point where Brad asks for B’s number via instant messenger.  B spends several days in anxiety as she waits for Brad’s call.

A week later, B reports back that Brad didn’t call but then called to apologize for not calling.  He’s been busy, you see, and he’ll call this next week when he has more free time.  She confronts him at church and becomes upset when she thinks he doesn’t want to talk to her.  So she approaches him after the service and asks if he even still wants to be friends.  He immediately answers yes, and B susses out that Brad had no idea that girls get upset when guys don’t call.  She also thinks he has never dated before.  They make plans to hang out later in the week.

Two days later B reports that Brad did come over and they made out.  Brad thinks she is beautiful and really likes her and just had to get over his nerves.  However, they are not yet “dating.”  B is glad she tolerated Brad’s shyness.  Other women in the thread congratulate B.

Yesterday (about two weeks later) B posts that she is no longer livid that Brad stood her up twice and then called four days after the fact to inform her that he was too busy for her and that he didn’t want B to get her hopes up for a relationship.  B is infuriated that Brad would kiss her and then do this.  B tries to get the last salvo in by telling Brad that she gave up hope after he stood her up the second time.  B’s girlfriends console her with talk of kicking him in the nuts.

Dr. Haley’s prognosis:  Brad was never that interested in B.  Most of the work in their “relationship” was on B’s end.  Brad, however, was probably consumed with churchian guilt over using B for smoochies and hence broke it off.

Male C reports that things are “going well” with the girl he is dating, but for the fact that she often will not contact him for a WEEK.  C finds this “frustrating.”

Dr. Haley’s prognosis:  C is this girl’s beta orbiter.  Her tingle for him, on a scale from 1 to 10, is around a 1.5.


17 Responses to “The Dr. is in!”

  1. ThinkingMan July 28, 2010 at 10:26 am #

    I wonder if B’s angst is related to a case of the ‘baby rabies’?

    As far as C, he does sound like a beta, the gal seems to be using him only for boredom purposes until something better comes along. He’d be better off not calling her and just moving on with no explanation to her whatsoever. Two can play that game. However, if he’s beta he’ll cling because he has no confidence in himself.

  2. Aunt Haley July 28, 2010 at 10:33 am #

    B sounds young to me, like still-in-college young. I doubt it’s baby rabies.

    C is hopeless. He’s posted before about things like having long-suffering crushes on bisexual female friends. He enjoys his misery.

  3. ThinkingMan July 28, 2010 at 10:56 am #

    Ahhh. If B is young then I wonder if there are men in her church she won’t consider because they’re not ‘alpha’ enough. That may not be the case but if it’s a church of any size, seems like there would be other men to give a chance unless there’s an issue with her attractiveness and she doesn’t receive much interest.

    Note that attractiveness is more than physical appearance and can include approachability or the lack thereof. But if B’s situation is another of the many cases in which 80% of the church girls pursue the 10% who qualify as alpha guys, then B’s chances come down to mostly mathematics, something Athol Kay has correctly mentioned in prior threads.

    With the unspoken paradigm that ‘girliness is next to Godliness’ presented to men in far too many churches, B’s odds of landing a church alpha are low if she attends one of those churches.

    I would be very angry if I were mislead by Female A’s mom into meeting a person for lunch who no longer looks like she did thirteen years ago. That is nothing short of deceptive. Sounds like Female A’s mom wants grandchildren and is willing to be less than truthful about her daughter. That’s a non-starter right there.

    You’re right about C, AH. He sounds like an unconfident, pedastlizing feminized romantic. Most women would run from such guys. Unless he wakes up, his best chances would lie with a woman more masculine than he. That’s a sad state to be in.

  4. dalrock July 29, 2010 at 6:57 am #

    @Thinking Man
    With the unspoken paradigm that ‘girliness is next to Godliness’ presented to men in far too many churches, B’s odds of landing a church alpha are low if she attends one of those churches.

    What about “rolling your own” alpha? Seems that women love the idea of taking an alpha on as a fixer upper, trying to mix in some beta qualities. Wouldn’t it work better to find one of the less nauseating beta guys at church and date him while trying to up his alpha qualities? One thing about betas, they listen to their girlfriends.

    If he doesn’t progress as expected you could always throw him back and start over. After all, if he stayed in nauseating beta mode there would be no threat to the girl’s chastity.

  5. Aunt Haley July 29, 2010 at 8:32 am #

    Some girls do try to fix up betas. There is a variety of woman who loves nothing more than a “project.” If a beta has any alpha potential, these women will run with it.

  6. dalrock July 29, 2010 at 9:26 am #

    Have you ever actually seen this? For example, has any woman you know told you about doing this and whether it worked or not? My guess is the fixerupper instinct is more of an after the fact justification for women who date bad boys and don’t want to admit that is their preference.

  7. sdaedalus July 29, 2010 at 1:38 pm #

    I don’t think the fixer upper thing works. For a start, once you make them more alpha, they are attractive to other women too, possibly even for the first time in their lives. Naturally they are going to feel they could do better (even if they are doing quite well already) on the basis that they are more attractive now than when they met the fixer upper. This applies even if the fixer upper deliberately punched below her weight to get a guy who would appreciate her.

  8. sdaedalus July 29, 2010 at 1:40 pm #

    Possibly if there are kids involved before they are fully fixed up, then they might have sufficient loyalty to stay around, but fixing someone up without ensuring there are sufficient ties to bind is incredibly stupid. Funnily enough it is always the so-called smart girls who fall prey to this, they think because they can get everything else to work in their lives they can create the perfect man too. People unfortunately are a bit more complicated than that, and like to create themselves.

  9. dalrock July 29, 2010 at 2:08 pm #

    Naturally they are going to feel they could do better (even if they are doing quite well already) on the basis that they are more attractive now than when they met the fixer upper.

    This would be true if you made up a woman to be prettier. A beta guy acting more alpha is still going to be just as smitten for the girl who alpha’d him up as he did before. Betas are loyal to a fault.

  10. sdaedalus July 29, 2010 at 3:26 pm #

    No Dalrock, that is not the case, at least it depends on how you define beta.

    I am defining beta as guys who are not alphas in the sense of not being madly attractive to women, but not omegas in the sense of being completely unattractive either.

    Some of these guys are loyal, some aren’t. I agree that being loyal may make it more difficult for one to be an alpha, because women tend to be attracted more to cads, but this doesn’t mean that all cads are alphas, or all betas are loyal.

    I’d agree that betas are more likely to be loyal, certainly I’d avoid alphas from point of view of relationships, although apparently there are faithful alphas out there I’ve yet to meet one.

    But a woman shouldn’t assume that the reverse is always the case & non-alphas are always faithful either.

  11. sdaedalus July 29, 2010 at 3:28 pm #

    And btw, Dalrock, women who do lose lots of weight after marriage & get more glamorous are more likely to have affairs, they don’t all do so, but a percentage do, because they feel they have more options (particularly if the husband was picked when they were fatter). It’s exactly the same principle, only it doesn’t happen so often with women because their shelf-life is much more limited, by the time they’ve lost the weight they are older and this counteracts the options from the weight loss.

  12. ThinkingMan July 29, 2010 at 9:40 pm #

    I too do not think that trying to create your own alpha male will work with the average church man. Depending on what a man has been through, it’s not that simple in most cases. Reading PUA stuff is one thing but having the confidence to act in perceived alpha behavior isn’t so easy. And church is hardly the place to learn how to become an alpha. If anything, alphas are too independent and a threat to the established lines of authority.

    And by definition dalrock, if one assumes that a guy were to become successfully alpha with his lady’s encouragement and support, wouldn’t he be more inclined to independence from her? Wouldn’t many women be threatened by their men becoming more and more confident and gaining more attention from women who would be seen as competition? It would take a woman of extreme confidence to encourage that process in her man.
    Who wants to invest so much in a partner only to face the elevated risk of that investment (and partner) leaving for ‘greener pastures’ once he grows into a confident man and mate.

    Such women do exist but they’re not very common in my experiences. Furthermore, healthy men are looking for confident and secure women such at this and it seems that the odds are that many women like this are married at a fairly young age.

    I don’t have anything quantitative on that but that’s just my beliefs based on personal observation and experience.

    And as for betas being loyal? I think that’s overrated. Betas act in their own interests just as other men do and not all betas would be eternally loyal once their relational options would rise.

  13. dalrock July 30, 2010 at 7:04 am #

    As you allude nearly all the time men get relatively more attractive than their wives over time. Very few men cheat (at least to my observation).

  14. sdaedalus July 30, 2010 at 7:16 am #

    It’s good to know less men cheat than one suspects, but I’ve still come across quite a few who do, certainly a few who attempt to cheat.

    Also, guys who don’t cheat necessarily while in a marriage, but who break off that marriage because it just doesn’t feel right any more, this may not be as bad as cheating, but it often arises from the same reason as above, the guy has more options now than in the past.

    Also, guys who don’t cheat or leave, but resent not being able to act on their options, are not necessarily the easiest to live with either.

    I do appreciate that men are less likely than women to leave a marriage if there are kids involved, I don’t know if that’s because they care more about a stable home for the kids or simply because of custody and alimony laws.

    The point I am making (and this applies to men too) is that if you marry someone who is not particularly attractive to you, with a view to making them more attractive, even if you succeed, it may not necessarily have the result you want.

    I think you’re better to marry someone you like as they are without trying to change them, and I think you’d need to be fairly strongly attracted to them as they are, it’s not of course the only requirement, but it is a necessary one.

  15. dalrock July 30, 2010 at 9:50 am #

    It is hard to comment meaningfully when you agree entirely with what someone just said. What is the (n)etiquette for that?

    Yes you are right, there are plenty of slime-ball husbands. If you catch me giving them a pass please do me the favor of pointing it out. I mention one such case in the comments on my recent post on churches not caring about divorce. There is no excuse for a married person being a tramp or being flighty, regardless of their sex.

    And I agree about not marrying someone you aren’t attracted to as they are. I have taken a pretty hard stand on that (Women shouldn’t settle). What I’m suggesting is dating the guy to see if he is a good candidate to alpha up a bit. There are two factors at work. Nature, which exists on a bell curve, and nurture which skews the whole curve to the girly/beta/nauseating side. I’m saying find someone who is close who if you counteract a bit of the feminist force field, would be a great husband. And only marry him if this in fact works as expected. Then of course, refrain from constant ball busting or he might revert to Beta form…


  16. Aunt Haley July 30, 2010 at 10:04 am #

    men get relatively more attractive than their wives over time.

    If they take care of themselves, they can – but in fat America, that’s iffy. Some of my brother’s friends look at least 5-10 years older than they are due to poor nutrition and exercise habits. (Also, they dress badly.)


  1. Roll your own alpha? | Dalrock - August 8, 2010

    […] women outnumber men in most churches, but single alpha men are extremely uncommon in churches.  As ThinkingMan puts it in the comments to one of Haley’s posts: With the unspoken paradigm that ‘girliness is next […]

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