You should just kiss her.

8 Mar

I was talking to my brother on the phone tonight and found out that his first college girlfriend had never let him kiss her even though they dated for a (school) year.  This was because she was one of those girls who had decided not to kiss anyone until she was married.  This was also before my brother had read The Game three times and Mystery Method twice.  And this was also in part due to the sterilized Christian college atmosphere of “even the slightest male sexual forwardness is akin to date rape.”  Ultimately, the ex-girlfriend’s unwillingness to kiss my brother led to their breakup.

But, as I learned, he should have just gone ahead and kissed her.  Years later she apologized to him for never kissing him and then confessed that she had gotten drunk and made out with some random stranger and felt awful about it.  I don’t think this made my brother feel better about all those kissless months.

All women, no matter what they say, want the men they’re dating to put the moves on them, or at least try.  If you’ve been dating a non-kisser for a while, and you have good chemistry, and you’ve just had a really great date, you may as well go for it.  She may honestly believe that she wants to save her lips for “I do,” but what her subconscious really wants is to know that the man she is dating finds her so irresistible that he can’t help but kiss her.  Irresistibility is key, though.  Anything less will seem calculated or lustful.  Another caveat:  bring your best game in case you get rebuffed – not so that you can then con her into changing her mind, but to show her that her refusal to kiss you does not affect you.  (If you have really wicked game, you should let her know how attractive you find her, and then inform her that you will not kiss her under any circumstance.  She will be dying for you to kiss her.  Hey, it worked for Rhett Butler.)

I’m not writing this to try to get men to get women to abandon their kiss-free standards.  Some women are very resolute and sincere and do make it to the altar with unbesmirched lips.  I commend these women.  But I think that a lot of young women adopt a kiss-free stance in a fit of idealistic romanticism, rather than as a result of sober contemplation.  It’s the idealistic romanticizers, therefore, for whom no-kissing often amounts to a sanctified shit test – a test that men should recognize and treat as any other.  The truth is that under amenable circumstances, a woman will kiss whom she wants to kiss.  Very, very few women can fight off the hamster for long when it comes to kissing the men they are deeply attracted to.

P.S.  This blog post should not be interpreted to mean “ASSAULT HER WITH YOUR SLOBBERY, OVEREAGER LIPS JUST BECAUSE THERE WAS A SPLIT-SECOND PAUSE IN THE CONVERSATION.”  Timing is always of the essence.

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43 Responses to “You should just kiss her.”

  1. Joseph Dantes March 9, 2011 at 12:00 am #

    *muah*

  2. jack March 9, 2011 at 12:43 am #

    What a typical church girl. Lots of big talk about purity, only to hand it over when the heat of the moment overtook her.

    There are no good girls. Just good actresses.

    This also proves that there is little point in trying to be a good guy – no girl will ever reward you for it or respect you.

  3. modernguy March 9, 2011 at 1:16 am #

    We really need to stop listening to what women want. As far as their word counts they might as well be barking. It’s really kind of contemptible and exasperating.

  4. Risky Business March 9, 2011 at 1:39 am #

    I’m kinda facing a little dilemma about kissing myself. Not that I can’t kiss my girlfriend. We’ve kissed before, but I also want to maintain proper boundaries. Would it be weird if I were to tell her that I don’t think we should makeout while we’re alone at her place or my place? I just don’t want it to lead to anything else.

  5. Badger March 9, 2011 at 1:49 am #

    I concur with jack and modernguy – to play the devil’s advocate, this makes it sound like Christian values are just a big shit test, and that the girls are hypocrites.

    I’m sorry, but a year of romantic entanglement without so much as a kiss is just insane and reflects not piety but deep psychological hangups about sexuality. Great Books for Men would have gone crazy about your brother’s case – she wants him to work for what she gives away for free to other guys.

    “P.S. This blog post should not be interpreted to mean “ASSAULT HER WITH YOUR SLOBBERY, OVEREAGER LIPS JUST BECAUSE THERE WAS A SPLIT-SECOND PAUSE IN THE CONVERSATION.” Timing is always of the essence.”

    Mystery had this one right. Just count your IOIs (laughing at unfunny wisecracks, touching her hair, touching you, compliance, complimenting you). If you get three IOIs your chance of rejection is almost zero. If mainstream understanding of game only got to the point of teaching IOI-reading to men, it would still improve their SMP performance and happiness dramatically.

  6. Joseph Dantes March 9, 2011 at 1:55 am #

    Jack you desperately need to read narciso babaero. hvren.wordpress.com

    You really dont’ get it… men or women.

  7. Badger March 9, 2011 at 2:13 am #

    “I’m kinda facing a little dilemma about kissing myself. Not that I can’t kiss my girlfriend. We’ve kissed before, but I also want to maintain proper boundaries. Would it be weird if I were to tell her that I don’t think we should makeout while we’re alone at her place or my place? I just don’t want it to lead to anything else.”

    If you’re serious about not making out at your place, I wouldn’t under any circumstances tell her. Putting it into words might come off as skittish or a DLV. I’m here to tell you that if she’s into you, it’s likely she either wants it to lead to something or wants YOU to want it to lead to something else.

    Don’t tell her anything, just do it (or don’t, as it were). Semi-public smooches are hot, and snogging in the restaurant coat closet where there’s not much possibility for escalation is a good substitute.

    If you want to pull this off though, you have to know that your girl is serious about the boundaries herself. As this post itself reveals, plenty of “Christian” girls have used purity as a big hypocritical shit test – she tells the man she has boundaries but she really wants him to be so consumed by his lustful passion that he can’t help but blast through them…and if you don’t, they view you as less of a man. Like Haley said, classic shit test.

  8. theprivateman March 9, 2011 at 3:07 am #

    “Timing is always of the essence.”

    For most guys unschooled in Game, they have no clue when the timing is right.

    If they move in for the kiss too soon, they are aggressive cads.

    If they wait too long, they are Nice Guy chumps.

    The woman knows exactly the right time for the kiss. Sadly, she usually doesn’t know how to communicate that to the guy without Game.

  9. JG March 9, 2011 at 5:00 am #

    That’s good advice Haley. But at least advise him to make sure she’s not the kind of flake who will file an attempted rape charge against him. Most women won’t but men have been falsely accused for much less than an attempted kiss.

    I agree with the other guys who remarked that chastity talk is often just a test of the man’s interest and resolve. And church guys are taught how to fail such tests, leaven them some, if not the most, sexually frustrated men on the planet. I don’t advocate breaking their morals, but there are better ways to train men about relationships than teaching them how to be passive pussies/girly-men and lose women to far more assertive men who do not share their church-inspired sexual hangups.

  10. CSPB March 9, 2011 at 7:37 am #

    When can/should a man kiss a woman? When he thinks he can. If they are into each other, she is feeling the same thing as him. He needs to take the lead and try. He should be bold but not a brute. She is free to not reciprocate. He shows his masculinity by trying. If he does not ever try, he will get dumped. Whether the kiss happens or not is immaterial. A man has nothing to lose by trying.

    Or he can call it out. “I want to kiss you but I’m not going to. Maybe later. “ If he keeps teasing and playfully denying her she will get so focused on this that she may jump on his lap and demand to be kissed. I have done this and it is golden. This is a tingle multiplier.

    The same woman earlier had poked or hit my chest in a playful way. As she stepped away for a moment, I poked her non-sexually in the boob. She was shocked because it was clearly taboo. It was not creepy because it was not a grope. It was just bold. It sounds counterintuitive, but things like this work well, but a man has to have the confidence and timing to pull it off with indifference to her reaction. These things are not wrong for Christian men to do either, because it demonstrates that he is not too prim and proper. That is a turn-off. He has integrity but he cannot be categorized. This mystery is attractive to her. It conveys fun and adventure.

    However if she gets all in a huff, then by his test he has learned her true nature. Repressed women will try to control male sexuality because they fear it. No good relationship can happen with such a woman.

  11. Brendan March 9, 2011 at 7:46 am #

    The woman knows exactly the right time for the kiss. Sadly, she usually doesn’t know how to communicate that to the guy without Game.

    Well, she doesn’t want to have to communicate it to him, she wants him to pick up on her non-verbal cues, many of which may also be less than consciously done by her as explicit, intentional IOIs, even though they should be *read* by a guy as an IOI. Women are generally much, much better at reading non-verbal cues than men are, out of the box, and they know it, so this is basically a shit test to ensure that you are not one of the “shit” men when it comes to reading non-verbal cues. Reading non-verbal cues is an important skill for men to learn, regardless of other “Game” skills, as women, even married ones, often become very frustrated when men don’t read their non-verbal cues well. Such women are often advised by therapists to verbalize more, but that just kills the tingle, really, because it means they are being asked to communicate openly with a man who has repeatedly failed the non-verbal communication shit test, and is therefore unattractive.

    ======

    On the main post, I’d have to say that this is very variable, and very much depends on the woman. If a woman is giving IOIs, I do think the “just kiss her” perspective is appropriate. But again this has to do with the guy’s ability to read IOIs accurately and get the timing right — something which probably takes some practice for most guys (and, yes, that means some of the ladies are going to be the ones who are practiced on … that’s life I guess).

  12. dkb March 9, 2011 at 9:12 am #

    To add to the OP, I would never marry women who had enough self control to keep my hands/lips away from her….but also keep her hands/lips off of me, let alone entertain spending more time on the relationship. (Ultimately, it is a waste of your time, as attraction over time cannot be faked!) I think it is a recipe for divorce and it would tell me that she really is not that into me. If we both clearly state our purity vows, then the choice of how much is too much and too soon is a question for you to work out. However, that question needs to be on the table from almost the beginning. Once you know your into her…and you know she is into you….I think being physical should be a struggle for both of you all the way to the alter. Coming from a man who married a women with a very low sex drive, (however she was all over me prior to marriage), I would make sure that sex was a priority for her before I would move forward to seriously courting/dating her. If that passion is strong enough that we felt we could no longer wait, I would move the date of the wedding from later to sooner!

  13. jack March 9, 2011 at 9:29 am #

    This also says so much about the malleability of women. They reflect what is around them.

    As far back as Eden, all it took was the “right” voice whispering in the ear, and then catastrophe.

    Some people fell that the Bible states that Eve was deceived, where Adam actually sinned. I’m okay with this interpretation.

    Sadly, you can’t even look to a so-called Christian girl like the one in the story. Why should I believe that Christian girls are any different than the rest when they behave like that?

  14. Aunt Haley March 9, 2011 at 11:13 am #

    Risky Business-
    I’m kinda facing a little dilemma about kissing myself. Not that I can’t kiss my girlfriend. We’ve kissed before, but I also want to maintain proper boundaries. Would it be weird if I were to tell her that I don’t think we should makeout while we’re alone at her place or my place? I just don’t want it to lead to anything else.

    1. Don’t make an announcement about not making out at your place.
    2. Don’t invite her over to your place when you will be alone with her, and don’t go to her place when you will be alone. If you want to maintain boundaries, why put yourself in a situation where you’re 99.9% sure to fail? This may sound impractical and unrealistic (and, most importantly, NOT FUN), but you need to decide how much you think integrity is worth.

    Basically, don’t keep chocolate cake in the fridge when you’re on a diet.

  15. Hana March 9, 2011 at 1:37 pm #

    My little piece of advice would be: don’t start seriously dating a girl until you’re both on the same page re: kissing boundaries. In other words, don’t go along with a girl’s “rules” about kissing, pretending that you’re okay with it, but secretly hoping she will change her mind.

    I know a girl quite well who went through this. She was dating her first boyfriend at the age of 24, and she didn’t believe in kissing before engagement. He hadn’t been a Christian for that long, and had broken *all* the rules (read between the lines) with his last girlfriend. While he didn’t want to repeat those mistakes, he didn’t agree with his new, Christian girlfriend about kissing before engagement.

    But instead of telling her how he felt, he acted as though everything were okay–until three months later, he abruptly broke up with her because he felt they barely touched and had “no physical chemistry.” (Then he tried to get back together with her, but that’s a whole other story about how if you’re serious about dating a girl, you need to know your own mind.)

    Obviously, because this was my friend’s first boyfriend and she was in love with him, she was heartbroken. So I think the lesson is: Christian girls may have differing rules about physical investment, but girls in general get emotionally invested pretty quickly. If you are frustrated by a girl’s physical boundaries, don’t pressure her, because some girls really are shy/uncomfortable with opening up physically. (And some other girls just have rules they think they should follow, but they don’t have a lot of self-control.) In any case, if you see her rules about physical affection as a potential deal-breaker, tell the girl that up front before she gets too emotionally invested. I think that the behaviour of a true Christian “alpha” (I don’t mean the pickup artist kind) would be to set the boundaries from the outset: you don’t believe in premarital sex and are capable of exerting enough self-control to prevent that from happening; but you are very attracted to her, and therefore you don’t want to wait too long for physical contact.

  16. Aunt Haley March 9, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    Hana–
    In any case, if you see her rules about physical affection as a potential deal-breaker, tell the girl that up front before she gets too emotionally invested.

    I don’t think there is any way a man can do this without coming off as a sex-crazed pervert. The girl is just going to run back to her friends and trash him as disrespectful to women and all he cares about is sex. Or if she doesn’t trash him, her friends will once they find out why he doesn’t want to go out with her.

  17. Yvette Francino March 9, 2011 at 8:13 pm #

    Well, I’m Christian and can get the waiting until marriage for sex thing, but no kissing? That’s insane! I say the guy should go for a kiss on the first date! I can live with the second date. But if he doesn’t go for it by date 3, I put him in the friend zone. No kiss means either no chemistry or no confidence..

  18. Risky Business March 10, 2011 at 4:50 am #

    Badger, your response seem pretty game-focused. I’m not sure how setting boundaries is DLV. How would it look if we were alone and I didn’t want to kiss but didn’t explain? Wouldn’t that be more awkward? Also, this couldn’t be much of a shit test since she was not the one to initiate the conversation about boundaries-I was the one to start it and set them. I’m more concerned about my own personal integrity than actually ending up breaking boundaries in order to pass some stupid test. I’ve said no to sex to too many girls to go ahead and lose my virginity at this point to a girl I really like until I get married.

    Aunt Haley, we’re inevitably going to be hanging out alone sometimes, since she is kind of far from me geographically. So we make the most of the time we have on the weekends, but sometimes that means being in that situation. Can’t be helped.

    I went ahead and told her what I was thinking and she thought it was a good idea.

  19. Splash Daddy March 10, 2011 at 9:09 am #

    My goodness this is depressing. The only commentator on this thread that makes any sense is Yvette Francino. Purity to the point of no kissing? Really? Are you trying to earn your way into heaven? Whether or not you get there is God’s call, not mine, but I can predict with accuracy that you are destined for a loveless youth and a lot of disappointment in your life. Do you really think that is part of God’s plan for you?

    Haley is right – just kiss her!

  20. Hana March 10, 2011 at 10:40 am #

    Well, I guess I agree with Brendan–“just kiss her” *if* she’s giving out IOIs. It really does depend on the girl. Some girls will withhold kissing as a “shit test” (maybe they’re even doing it subconsciously) but there are girls around who are really naive/inexperienced and have very strict physical boundaries. “Just kissing” a girl like that could be the death knell for your relationship.

    I didn’t agree with my friend’s “no-kissing-before-engagement” boundaries, and I couldn’t figure out why she was so uncomfortable with any form of touching–even hugs and hand-holding at first. But she explained to me that she’d never been comfortable touching people or being hugged. Plus, she was really concerned about setting boundaries so as not to be tempted.

    I’m not sure how a man would distinguish between this type of girl who sincerely doesn’t want to be kissed (yet, anyway), and the type of girl who is secretly looking to be kissed at the right time. I guess one way would be to see how comfortable she is with touching, in general. I think my friend is kind of an exception…most girls do long for physical contact with their boyfriends.

  21. Old Guy March 10, 2011 at 12:37 pm #

    Risky Business: Billy Graham wouldn’t be alone in a room with a woman who wasn’t close family. Ever. If you want to control your behaviour, control your environment. That’s how at least one alpha grown-up did it.

    (As Haley says, don’t make an announcement. You’ll want your girlfriend to understand what’s going on though. And you must not discuss it with her. You can figure out why these are true for homework.)

  22. Aunt Haley March 10, 2011 at 1:10 pm #

    Well, judging by the responses in this thread, it’s no wonder male/female relations are so confusing/frustrating/depressing. No one can agree on any standard of behavior, so every interaction with a new man or woman is a total Hail Mary.

  23. Wayfinder March 10, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    Well, judging by the responses in this thread, it’s no wonder male/female relations are so confusing/frustrating/depressing. No one can agree on any standard of behavior, so every interaction with a new man or woman is a total Hail Mary.

    Yeah, pretty much. Especially in evangelical Christian circles – everybody wants singles to avoid premarital sex but no one can agree on what to do about it or where to draw the line.

  24. Aunt Haley March 10, 2011 at 4:07 pm #

    Wayfinder–
    everybody wants singles to avoid premarital sex but no one can agree on what to do about it or where to draw the line.

    Blaming “the culture” seems to be pretty popular.

  25. Purple Tortoise March 10, 2011 at 4:18 pm #

    “Well, judging by the responses in this thread, it’s no wonder male/female relations are so confusing/frustrating/depressing. No one can agree on any standard of behavior, so every interaction with a new man or woman is a total Hail Mary.”

    I think the current dating/courtship confusion is a large contributing factor to the beta-ization of men in the church. Decades ago, a man with beta traits would nonetheless have a definite cultural script to work from, and following this would help mask his lack of social adeptness. These days, such a script has disappeared, and only alphas have the acumen to negotiate the confusion. Unbelieving alphas become players and Christian alphas marry early. An unbelieving beta can become more alpha through practice (i.e., repeated application of Game), but that route not is not open to the Christian beta. The Christian beta has no opportunity to develop better social skills with women because entering relationships not potentially leading to marriage is frowned upon. Imagine how the Boundless crowd would react if a man decided to have relationships with a woman he didn’t want to marry in order to practice with romance so that he could become more attractive (alpha-like) to a woman he did want to marry.

    So, single Christian women, what do you prefer? Are you willing to take Christian betas and hope that you can help them become more alpha-like after marriage? Or do you want them to be more alpha-like before you’ll consider dating them even if that will likely be at the cost of a string of broken hearts and possibly your heart, too?

  26. Samson March 10, 2011 at 7:02 pm #

    She may honestly believe that she wants to save her lips for “I do,” but what her subconscious really wants is to know that the man she is dating finds her so irresistible that he can’t help but kiss her.

    If this is what she really wants, then isn’t not kissing her a form of Game?

    In any event, I’m with commenter “jack” on this; I’m starting to get the vibe from recent posts here that there are Christian girls… and then there are Christian girls. I wouldn’t want to date you, Haley, based on some the stuff you’ve posted lately.

  27. Aunt Haley March 10, 2011 at 8:21 pm #

    Samson–
    isn’t not kissing her a form of Game?

    It depends on who’s withholding the smoochies.

    I wouldn’t want to date you, Haley, based on some the stuff you’ve posted lately.

    Being that you are married, I guess that’s good to know?

  28. Risky Business March 11, 2011 at 12:04 am #

    “Well, judging by the responses in this thread, it’s no wonder male/female relations are so confusing/frustrating/depressing. No one can agree on any standard of behavior, so every interaction with a new man or woman is a total Hail Mary.”

    Exactly. I have found all the responses equally useless. :)

  29. Badger March 11, 2011 at 1:28 am #

    Risky Business,

    “Badger, your response seem pretty game-focused.”

    If you think game principles don’t function on Christian women you have another thing coming. You gotta understand women if you want to succeed with them. Naturals do it instinctively, but either way you gotta know.

    “I’m not sure how setting boundaries is DLV.”

    Resisting a woman’s wiles is a DHV; setting up the idea that you are not very sexual is a DLV. Asking her to help you resist temptation is also a DLV, it expresses lack of competence. If you read the post, or the post Haley linked to in the post, you will understand that generally speaking women want men to express virility regardless of how far around the bases they want to go.

    “How would it look if we were alone and I didn’t want to kiss but didn’t explain? Wouldn’t that be more awkward?”

    Never explain, never complain.

    “Also, this couldn’t be much of a shit test since she was not the one to initiate the conversation about boundaries-I was the one to start it and set them.”

    You’re playing on this idea that a hormonally-charged, romantically-oriented woman is a rational being. She’s not. She may openly agree with your “boundaries” but secretly pine for you to be so consumed by your passion for her that you blow through the boundaries in the moment. She can still shit test you even if you initiate the issue; you’ve just given her the rope. There’s a reason it’s called the rationalization hamster, women often operate in a state of cognitive dissonance like this.

    “I’m more concerned about my own personal integrity than actually ending up breaking boundaries in order to pass some stupid test.”

    First, fitness tests are not “stupid,” they are deadly serious and have deep-sixed plenty of good men’s relationships. Second, you don’t have to break your boundaries to pass the test; if you respond with manliness, you pass no matter what you do. But you are not going to be able to do that unless you admit that fitness testing might come up.

  30. Brendan March 11, 2011 at 7:25 am #

    I agree with Badger in that fitness tests are just going to come up. For the most part they are not done by women *intentionally* as fitness tests — but women do seem to be wired somehow to periodically test their men for relative degrees of masculinity in various ways, and if you fail the test, it’s bad news. In the context of a marriage, it’s not generally one test that is failed but several in a row — if that happens, she’s liable to “check-out” emotionally as her wiring orients her towards remating with a more masculine male — Christian or not, frankly.

  31. Aunt Haley March 11, 2011 at 8:40 am #

    Shit tests are 99% not premeditated or intentional (in the non-legal sense). Men seem to envision women sitting around plotting and planning the execution of shit tests with an expressly stated goal in mind. That’s not how they work. Women always judge a man’s reaction to her behavior, but I guarantee you that it’s the rare woman who consciously draws an express conclusion. It’s more intuitive. Fail enough shit tests in a row, and you will kill the woman’s feminine respect for you, and she will start treating you as the loser her intuition tells her you are.

  32. Joseph Dantes March 11, 2011 at 9:12 am #

    I’ll add another sanctified shit test: the conscious or unconscious attitude that “Jesus is my boyfriend.”

    You’ve got to break her soul in, so she knows who the real boyfriend is.

    And Haley, you’re really in fine form on this post and the comments.

    “Sanctified shit test” has entered my lexicon…

  33. Badger March 11, 2011 at 10:12 am #

    JD,

    A fitness test is not just a test – it’s “rubbing up against your manhood,” a woman wanting you to be manly because she enjoys it. If she’s not feeling enough of that, she’ll semi-consciously start to test to bring it out. If you don’t bring it out, she’ll find someone who will.

    A man needs to maintain his displays of manliness to her just like a woman needs to stay attractive.

    http://badgerhut.wordpress.com/2011/02/18/more-on-frame-and-fitness-testing/

  34. lifeinlonglegs March 13, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    “Such women are often advised by therapists to verbalize more, but that just kills the tingle, really, because it means they are being asked to communicate openly with a man who has repeatedly failed the non-verbal communication shit test, and is therefore unattractive.”

    Having to be the one to initiate a deep conversation about your attraction or outright verbalize ‘the way things are’ makes a woman feel like she will have to be the one to broach every difficult conversation and define the relationship along the way. [aka take the lead all the time… ] Occasionally being the one to initiate things is one thing, but if the guy seems afraid of you it makes you doubt him or lose respect [something he really needs from you].

    As for kissing and attraction – if a woman can engage or marry you without kissing you, she would have to be very sure she was attracted to you… 100% certain even because she’s missing the chemistry test the first kiss provides. [And vice versa.]

    It is not likely a woman with that much self control has no sex drive… quite the opposite. And? She’s not likely to cheat on you. [This is about self control NOT libido so I am not, in this instance speaking of drunken kisser girl whose self control did not apparently extend to drinking or other areas of her life]

    Find a girl with great self control with a high libido.

    I know many women who don’t like to have sex with their husbands and in almost ALL cases it is because the husbands are not very good in bed. Reports include such things as “he’s selfish and always orgasms first” to “he has no concept of foreplay” to “he never pulls my hair or plays rough” [aka finds out what she likes!] Once you’re engaged, buy some instructive sex books, gentlemen – you’re at a disadvantage because our equipment is more complicated than yours. Approach this with the muster you’re putting into game. [this wouldn’t hurt the ladies, either].

    This can also fall to self esteem issues: body image, for example. A woman who feels self conscious in bed has trouble focusing and enjoying what is going on – even if you’re relatively skilled. So making her feel comfortable with her body with specific true compliments will also help, gentlemen.

    My advice [from my sordid past of course for those of you who know me] for the ladies is go get a brazilian bikini wax and hit the gym. Read some books too – a lot of women do not even know their own bodies well. Especially repressed Christians who forgot all the incredibly sensual references in the bible highlighting sexuality [within marriage]. If you have been assaulted, get therapy and pastoral council and get some women to pray for your sexuality. That’s hard to get over by yourself.

    It seems all this conversation boils down to the same key point: SHE NEEDS TO KNOW YOU DESIRE HER, BLATANTLY. This doesn’t mean you have to kiss her if she wants but doesn’t want you to do that [right now]; it may be a shit test or it may be a way for her to ensure that she truly is wholly invested in you before becoming physical.

  35. Badger March 13, 2011 at 11:25 am #

    “My advice [from my sordid past of course for those of you who know me] for the ladies is go get a brazilian bikini wax and hit the gym. Read some books too – a lot of women do not even know their own bodies well. Especially repressed Christians who forgot all the incredibly sensual references in the bible highlighting sexuality [within marriage]. If you have been assaulted, get therapy and pastoral council and get some women to pray for your sexuality. That’s hard to get over by yourself.”

    This is gold. No beauty tip works better than getting in shape. No sex tip works better than having a good psychological state with few hangups, clean out old skeletons, etc.

    It shocks me how a significant portion of my old church group was incredibly, obviously skittish about sexuality, and instead of working to get them to a place where they were more balanced, the church/group lauded them as more Godly because they weren’t “controlled by their desire.”

  36. Will S. March 13, 2011 at 7:18 pm #

    “Find a girl with great self control with a high libido.”

    Um, how would one know that she had the latter, if she had the former? And where do you find such girls? Enquiring minds want to know.

    “go get a brazilian bikini wax and hit the gym”

    What does that kind of grooming (as opposed to any other appropriate grooming for wearing gym-wear) have to do with anything?

    Sheesh.

  37. Risky Business March 14, 2011 at 3:17 am #

    ““I’m not sure how setting boundaries is DLV.”

    Resisting a woman’s wiles is a DHV; setting up the idea that you are not very sexual is a DLV. Asking her to help you resist temptation is also a DLV, it expresses lack of competence. If you read the post, or the post Haley linked to in the post, you will understand that generally speaking women want men to express virility regardless of how far around the bases they want to go.

    “Also, this couldn’t be much of a shit test since she was not the one to initiate the conversation about boundaries-I was the one to start it and set them.”

    You’re playing on this idea that a hormonally-charged, romantically-oriented woman is a rational being. She’s not. She may openly agree with your “boundaries” but secretly pine for you to be so consumed by your passion for her that you blow through the boundaries in the moment. She can still shit test you even if you initiate the issue; you’ve just given her the rope. There’s a reason it’s called the rationalization hamster, women often operate in a state of cognitive dissonance like this.”

    OK Badger, I’ll bite. So to pass the test, if the situation comes up where we’re making out and I don’t want to take it further, the only thing I have to do is maintain my boundaries without giving in to her wiles while demonstrating my virility by kissing her whenever I want?

  38. Paige March 18, 2011 at 11:09 am #

  39. Jason March 22, 2011 at 3:10 pm #

    Most women have no idea how strong a man is, I’ve heard it said that the top 10% of women only overlap the weakest 10% of men.

    I can easily hold my fiancée’s hands behind her back, and then I kiss her.

    The immobilisation tells her that I could have my way, the kiss tells her that I want her, and that I don’t take it further tells her that I have principles that I abide by.

    It also helps to put the time and effort into becoming a good kisser. ;)

  40. Jennifer August 19, 2011 at 6:49 pm #

    Perfect article :) But I don’t see the “true lips wait” thing as solely a female hamster.

  41. lifeinlonglegs January 6, 2012 at 6:15 pm #

    Will – “…how would one know that she had the latter, if she had the former?
    Good question.

    I suppose I would suggest you directly ask her in a polite way; only once it is appropriate to the relationship.

    Generally, when many women have sex, they are looking for sex to provide some verification that they are wanted, loved, attractive, beautiful. Sex verifies their worth; it is idolatrous, and the highly charged sexual relationship often sharply reverses into an utterly sexless relationship once this woman gets the ‘ultimate’ verification of her worth – a wedding ring.

    Sick, I know.

    If you stick to women who already feel their worth is confirmed by who they are in Christ Jesus and who are confident in HIm- that confidence and worthiness should hopefully translate into the ability to give and receive sexually within marriage.

    Within this segment of Christ-confident women are those who believe (incorrectly!) that sex – even within marriage – is dirty and evil so you’ll have to keep your eyes open to qualify for – or correct – incorrect belief in this area.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. Linkage is Good for You: We’re Back! Edition - March 13, 2011

    […] Aunt Haley – “You Should Just Kiss Her.” […]

  2. What Not to Do | Raise Your Glass - March 18, 2011

    […] HaleysHalo had an interesting post about kissing.  She says that boys need to just kiss the girl. […]

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