Game With the Wind.

21 Mar

I’ve been re-reading Gone With the Wind lately, and there is no character in literature more skilled at the neg than Rhett Butler.  Given that Rhett is dealing with one of the most self-absorbed and vain females in all of literature, his frame is (and must be, by necessity) concrete and the negs are fairly charged.  However, Rhett’s negs succeed because (a) he is able to deliver them with charm and humor, and (b) he never breaks frame.  He never backpedals or apologizes, but he never crosses the line into bitter insult.  Here is a good example from early in the novel, when Scarlett discovers that Rhett has overheard her conversation with Ashley in the library and witnessed her throwing a vase against the wall in rage.

“Sir,” she said, “you are no gentleman!”

“An apt observation,” he answered airily. “And, you, Miss, are no lady.” He seemed to find her very amusing, for he laughed softly again. “No one can remain a lady after saying and doing what I have just overheard. However, ladies have seldom held any charms for me. I know what they are thinking, but they never have the courage or lack of breeding to say what they think. And that, in time, becomes a bore. But you, my dear Miss O’Hara, are a girl of rare spirit, very admirable spirit, and I take off my hat to you. I fail to understand what charms the elegant Mr. Wilkes can hold for a girl of your tempestuous nature. He should thank God on bended knee for a girl with your–how did he put it?–‘passion for living,’ but being a poor-spirited wretch–”

“You aren’t fit to wipe his boots!” she shouted in rage.

“And you were going to hate him all your life!” He sank down on the sofa and she heard him laughing.

Scarlett’s accusation that Rhett is no gentleman is a classic shit test designed to make Rhett apologize for his behavior and establish Scarlett’s control of their encounter.  But instead of behaving like a gentleman, Rhett agrees and then drops the neg:  in the form of a compliment, he congratulates Scarlett on a poor quality – not being a lady.  He also AMOGs Ashley.

Negging, often in combination with Agree and Amplify, is a strategy that Rhett uses continually against Scarlett’s shit tests, which she doles out with regularity on account of his impudence.  That she cannot control him both infuriates and excites her.  Especially worth noting is that Rhett’s negs are often not upfront; he works them in as asides, or they are implied due to word choice and tone.  The following passage from chapter 17 demonstrates a barrage of game. My comments are bolded in brackets.

“…Never pass up new experiences, Scarlett. They enrich the mind.” [Neg.  Subtext: “Your mind needs enriching.”]

“My mind’s rich enough.” [Qualifying herself.]

“Perhaps you know best about that, but I should say– But that would be ungallant. And perhaps, I’m staying here to rescue you when the siege does come. I’ve never rescued a maiden in distress. That would be a new experience, too.”  [Neg.  Subtext:  “You’re helpless.”]

She knew he was teasing her but she sensed a seriousness behind his words. She tossed her head.

“I won’t need you to rescue me. I can take care of myself, thank you.” [Qualifying herself.]

“Don’t say that, Scarlett! Think of it, if you like, but never, never say it to a man. That’s the trouble with Yankee girls. They’d be most charming if they weren’t always telling you that they can take care of themselves, thank you. Generally they are telling the truth, God help them. And so men let them take care of themselves.” [Neg.  Comparing her to unfeminine women.]

“How you do run on,” she said coldly, for there was no insult worse than being likened to a Yankee girl. “I believe you’re lying about a siege. You know the Yankees will never get to Atlanta.” [Shit test.]

“I’ll bet you they will be here within the month. [Agree and amplify.] I’ll bet you a box of bonbons against–” His dark eyes wandered to her lips. “Against a kiss.”

For a last brief moment, fear of a Yankee invasion clutched her heart but at the word “kiss,” she forgot about it. This was familiar ground and far more interesting than military operations. With difficulty she restrained a smile of glee. Since the day when he gave her the green bonnet, Rhett had made no advances which could in any way be construed as those of a lover. He could never be inveigled into personal conversations, try though she might, but now with no angling on her part, he was talking about kissing. [Rhett always controls the frame with Scarlett.]

“I don’t care for such personal conversation,” she said coolly and managed a frown. “Besides, I’d just as soon kiss a pig.” [Shit test.]

“There’s no accounting for tastes and I’ve always heard the Irish were partial to pigs–kept them under their beds, in fact. [Agree and amplify in combination with a neg.] But, Scarlett, you need kissing badly. That’s what’s wrong with you. All your beaux have respected you too much, though God knows why, or they have been too afraid of you to really do right by you. [AMOG in combination with a neg.] The result is that you are unendurably uppity. You should be kissed and by someone who knows how.” [Neg.]

The conversation was not going the way she wanted it. It never did when she was with him. Always, it was a duel in which she was worsted.

“And I suppose you think you are the proper person?” she asked with sarcasm, holding her temper in check with difficulty. [Shit test.]

“Oh, yes, if I cared to take the trouble,” he said carelessly. “They say I kiss very well.” [Agree and amplify.]

“Oh,” she began, indignant at the slight to her charms. “Why, you . . .” But her eyes fell in sudden confusion. He was smiling, but in the dark depths of his eyes a tiny light flickered for a brief moment, like a small raw flame. “Of course, you’ve probably wondered why I never tried to follow up that chaste peck I gave you, the day I brought you that bonnet–” [Neg.]

“I have never–” [Qualifying herself.]

“Then you aren’t a nice girl, Scarlett, and I’m sorry to hear it. All really nice girls wonder when men don’t try to kiss them. They know they shouldn’t want them to and they know they must act insulted if they do, but just the same, they wish the men would try. . . . Well, my dear, take heart. Some day, I will kiss you and you will like it. But not now, so I beg you not to be too impatient.” [Neg, Neg, Neg.  Also, all girls want men to put the moves on them.]

She knew he was teasing but, as always, his teasing maddened her. There was always too much truth in the things he said. Well, this finished him. If ever, ever he should be so ill bred as to try to take any liberties with her, she would show him. [Hamster alert.]

“Will you kindly turn the horse around, Captain Butler? I wish to go back to the hospital.”

“Do you indeed, my ministering angel? Then lice and slops are preferable to my conversation? Well, far be it from me to keep a pair of willing hands from laboring for Our Glorious Cause.” [Neg, neg, neg.] He turned the horse’s head and they started back toward Five Points.

“As to why I have made no further advances,” he pursued blandly, as though she had not signified that the conversation was at an end, [controlling the frame] “I’m waiting for you to grow up a little more. You see, it wouldn’t be much fun for me to kiss you now and I’m quite selfish about my pleasures. I never fancied kissing children.” [Mega neg!]

He smothered a grin, as from the corner of his eye he saw her bosom heave with silent wrath.

When broken down, it’s easy to see that the male-female dynamic is that of alternating shit tests and either negs or agree/amplify.  In order to control the frame, the man can never submit to a shit test and – this is key – he should always view the shit test with some amusement.  Without a dose of humor and amusement, a man’s attempted negs will seem mean-spirited and/or defensive or – worse – clumsy.

It’s worth noting that Rhett’s industrial-strength game is probably too much for the average joe running day game or church game.  The strength of Rhett’s game was made necessary by the enormity of Scarlett’s ego and vanity.  Most men will not meet such a foe on the battleground of dating and mating.  Then again, the characters of the novel were constrained by the social mores of their time, and Scarlett, no matter how enraged she became at Rhett, never insulted him the way women today are prone to insult men.  So maybe industrial strength game should at least be in every man’s arsenal, should he need to use it.

One other somewhat unrelated note:  Kids LOVE negs.  Pretty much the fastest way to a child’s heart is to neg them with gleeful abandon.  Telling a kid (playfully) that you don’t believe whatever they’re telling you, and they will start qualifying themselves until they’re blue in the face.  Playfully insult their hero, and you will blow their mind.  (Of course, you have to be careful with this or you’ll end up with a sobbing child.)  When I used to work at a tutoring center, one of my students was in love with Nick Jonas from the Jonas Brothers.  So I took it upon myself to insult Nick Jonas constantly.  (“Nick Jonas isn’t cute.  He has squinty eyes.”  “Isn’t Nick Jonas younger than you?  You’re a cradle robber!”  “You call that singing?!” “Hi, Mrs. Jonas, what algebra homework do you have today?”)  But I knew that my student enjoyed having me as her tutor.  Done properly, kids, especially younger ones, will come back and practically beg for repeated negging.  That’s how you know they love and respect you.

 

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48 Responses to “Game With the Wind.”

  1. Badger March 22, 2011 at 12:37 am #

    Brilliant. Haley, you are in the pantheon with Susan Walsh as rare female descriptors of the female mind.

  2. modernguy March 22, 2011 at 2:16 am #

    “Women, then, are only children of a larger growth.” -Lord Chesterfield

    It’s no coincidence that women and children respond to the same form of teasing. A shit test is a test to see if the guy can treat her as a child and her feelings as insignificant in the big picture. Because women know instinctively that if people with responsibility followed their feelings and behaved as women want to be free to behave nothing worthwhile would ever be built. “Girls just want to have fun”. They don’t want to be put on the spot and they don’t want to be held accountable.

    Which is fine, except that when you deal with people who have responsibility you have to demand consistency. So if women want to be happy and free they should accept to be second tier citizens in society. The problem is that women want to play at being men too, as children do, and whoever described feminism as a collective shit test was right.

  3. JG March 22, 2011 at 6:39 am #

    Good post Haley, definitely informative and thought-provoking.

  4. AJ March 22, 2011 at 7:45 am #

    Haley, based on what I’ve seen in churches today, even more conservative, traditional churches, the enormity of the vanity and egos of many of the women (single and married) suggest that single and married men need to be well-versed in “industrial-strength” game.

  5. andy March 22, 2011 at 9:30 am #

    I have two boys and a step-daughter and the negs don’t seem to work well on the boys.

    You should see the duaghters face light up when I call her someone elses name in jest!

  6. Aunt Haley March 22, 2011 at 10:18 am #

    andy–
    Negging girls is a little different from negging boys. With boys you should never call their masculinity into question**, whereas with girls you can neg them for being both too masculine and too feminine, or not enough of either.

    Also, some children have no sense of humor or the absurd, and take everything completely literally. It’s best to avoid negging children like that because they will interpret everything as being made fun of.

    Above all, as with all negging, a certain lightness of touch is necessary.

    **Boys happily trade insults with each other as a sign of camaraderie, but an insult from a superior to an inferior can be crushing. It’s better with boys to pinpoint something humorous, like an obsession with a certain food (“Did someone tell you Cheetos have the same nutritional value as apples?”), or prick a hole in the balloon of something they hold sacred (“Kobe wishes he had skills like LeBron! I thought everyone knew that!”). Boys should always feel assured that men think of them as “one of us.”

    Badger–
    Thanks. The novel is filled with all sorts of insights into the male/female dynamic. It’s worth reading for the game aspect alone, although there are many other good reasons to read it as well.

  7. Anonymous March 22, 2011 at 10:58 am #

    1. High lit has surprisingly few good examples of game, while more middlebrow stuff like GWTW and Iceberg Slim’s Pimp often have more. Still, reading novels and poems is no substitute for the systematic treatment in The Mystery Method and it’s successors.

    2. Church girls often think very well of themselves in terms of mate value, but they are also typically pretty nice people, so dropping hard game like this will usually backfire. Plus, hard negs typically work best when there is some alcohol in the girl to soften the blow. Roosh has pointed out how negging often backfires when doing day game.

  8. Dan in Philly March 22, 2011 at 11:29 am #

    I always knew that if, by some chance, Ashley had ended up with Scarlett, she would have eaten him alive. That would have been an ending even more dystopian than the actual one the book had.

    That being said, Rhett’s game was all flash, no substance. The way he treated Scarlett was the same way he treated his daughter, Bonnie. He indulged her worse qualities and thereby amplified them. His words may have been alpha, but his actions were all beta (with one night being a notable exception).

    You want to spend all my money on trivialities? Anything for you, dear! You want to court friends with carpetbaggers I despise? Anything for you, dear! You want to live in separate chambers as brother and sister? Anything for you, dear! When push came to shove, Rhett was the opposite of the domineering one in the marriage, and Scarlett had contempt for him because of it. She didn’t see him crying in Melany’s lap, but I don’t think it would have suprised her.

    It was only after she lost him that she appreciated him, only after he no longer cared enough about her to coddle her that she found renewed interest in him. Some things never change…

  9. Susan Walsh March 22, 2011 at 2:08 pm #

    Haley, I love this post! It’s funny, my 21 yo daughter just watched GWTW for the first time, and yesterday we were discussing what Scarlett found attractive about Ashley. He had absolutely no alpha energy whatsoever! In fact, he seems so weak – always saying he can’t stand up to Scarlett. All I can think is that in 1939 the SMP was so different her undying attraction to him was understandable. Do you have any thoughts on this?

  10. Aunt Haley March 22, 2011 at 3:40 pm #

    Dan in Philly–
    I always knew that if, by some chance, Ashley had ended up with Scarlett, she would have eaten him alive.

    The book, speaking through Rhett, is very frank that this is the case.

    That being said, Rhett’s game was all flash, no substance.

    I disagree. Whenever Scarlett suspected that Rhett cared for her, she immediately began concocting schemes to make him beg for her affection. The only way Rhett could maintain any hand with her was to act disinterested. That he spoiled her materially once they were married had very little to do with his frame.

    Susan–
    In the book Ashley is portrayed as a Southern gentleman who longs for a world that no longer exists and prizes honor above all else. He is of an “ornamental” breed good only for the arts and humanities, not the dirty manual labor necessary to thrive during the Reconstruction era. To the objective eye, he’s clearly the wrong man for Scarlett. There are a few reasons that Scarlett is so taken with him, however: (1) he is different from the other neighborhood swains (contrast game!) despite excelling at all the activities a gentleman should hold dear, (2) his looks – he is a dignified, beautiful blond, and most importantly, (3) he refuses Scarlett’s advances. If Ashley had ever pursued Scarlett, he would have become just another disposable suitor to her. But because Scarlett knows that Ashley is attracted to her yet won’t act on it, her hamster basically goes into overdrive.

  11. Susan Walsh March 22, 2011 at 4:03 pm #

    Haley, haha, I got tingles just reading your description of Ashley as a man who is attracted but won’t act on it. At least in her case, she was correct. Untold numbers of women delude themselves with the fantasy of that, hamsterwheeling at warp speed.

  12. Nate March 22, 2011 at 8:29 pm #

    Pure gold! By the way, it’s been pointed out that the movie is a useful resource too:

    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2008/11/20/great-scenes-of-game-in-the-movies/

  13. Hana March 22, 2011 at 9:21 pm #

    Hmm–quite an interesting post, since I love Gone with the Wind–and I was inspired to blog about one of your posts again (I hope you don’t mind)!

    To Dan–I touched on it in my blog post, but I think that Rhett really loved Scarlett, and she would have taken any sign of his love as weakness and used it against him. I would think that even alphas have feelings? The problem was that Scarlett would only take advantage of Rhett’s feelings for her. He basically couldn’t admit that he loved her, because that would be the end of him. If he indulged her, it was his way of expressing his feelings in a way that Scarlett couldn’t turn against him.

    I think the main reason that Scarlett was so hung up on Ashley is that he, of all the men she knew, did not pursue her. She was used to having power over men because of her female desirability–the fact that Ashley didn’t respond to that power made her obsessed with him.

  14. MW March 23, 2011 at 1:23 am #

    Great analysis, Haley.

    As for church game…some churchy women have maaasssive entitlement complexes. Some are “holding out for a pastor” because that’s what they think they’re entitled to. I’d have no reservations in negging them. They need it. Or, I would ignore them.

    I remember bantering like this with some church girls and they were soooo “offended”. Wah! There was nothing rude or off colour, just simple ego-puncturing. Boy, were they annoyed. IMO anyone with an inflated self image is open for having the piss taken out of them. Period. Men do this all the time, and bond over it.

    As for the effectivness of industrial negs, get this: My parents met at church. One of the first things Dad said to Mum (upon learning her background) was, “You oughtta be slapped for leaving Australia!” 42 years later they are still married!

  15. Dan in Philly March 23, 2011 at 5:03 am #

    Haley, though I understand your point, I disagree with it. I have read many accounts of Alphas who lose their game once married and become super-betas after. Most women when swooning over Rhett always talk about his pre-married self, not his post married.

    I forget who, maybe Vox Day?, said that the cruelest thing you can do to a woman is give her everything she says she wants. Rhett did this to Scarlett after they were married and it did not make her happy. The happiest time in her marriage was pretty clearly after he dragged her upstairs for a night of semi-non-consentual sex. He was afraid of that side of himself and left the next day.

    Again I come back to how Rhett treated Bonnie’s fear of the dark. Mitchell makes a lot of how Rhett indulged it, which in the end only turned an otherwise brave and spunky girl into a simpering coward without a candle at night. Scarlett had more sense and warned him, but he was determined not to allow his little girl to have even a single night of fear, even if it was good for her. Similarly, whenever Scarlett wanted something not good for her, he gave in and indulged her in the only way he knew how, rather than setting a firm hand as he had when courting her.

    I wonder how many similar stories can be told of women who were swept off their feet by the mega game of a super-alpha, only to be spoiled and indulged and, in the end, no longer gamed when married to her once dangerous prince. Rhett was so wasted a man towards the end of the book that only leaving her had a chance of saving him. I think in the end he was not man enough to be her husband, though he made a great lover. The moral I took was you must never stop gaming the woman you love, especially if married to a Scarlett of your own.

  16. Badger March 23, 2011 at 5:42 am #

    “The happiest time in her marriage was pretty clearly after he dragged her upstairs for a night of semi-non-consentual sex. He was afraid of that side of himself and left the next day.”

    GWTW is an epic tragedy – two people who couldn’t balance their complex volatile personalities in time to save their romance (three if you count Ashley’s fatal allegiance to antiquated notions of honor) against the backdrop of the South’s own tragic decline from its sins of pride and bondage. On Rhett’s part, perhaps he felt guilty about his bootlegging and thought he didn’t deserve to be happy, or maybe he had so ingrained the role of the rogue outsider he could never play the straight man role in life. Scarlett obviously didn’t know when to shut up.

    “As for church game…some churchy women have maaasssive entitlement complexes. Some are “holding out for a pastor” because that’s what they think they’re entitled to. I’d have no reservations in negging them. They need it. Or, I would ignore them.”

    When a woman perceives her SMV to be above yours (i.e. inflated self esteem) is the time to neg – perceive is the key word. If she perceives lower value, you can leverage that delta by straight DHVing. To do this properly you need to have enough game to suss out her perception of the landscape in the first place.

    One of the first negs I recall recognizing as such was Rhett’s “I’m sorry if the truth offends you” in response to a group’s shock at his opinion that the South would lose the war.

  17. Paige March 23, 2011 at 6:32 am #

    Great post! But it needs a clip.

  18. Susan Walsh March 23, 2011 at 7:25 am #

    Haley, I woke up in the middle of the night with an idea for a series here. (Don’t you hate it when your blogging mind stays active during sleep?)

    It would be so great if you took apart some of the great novels and examined them through the lens of Game. Jane Eyre, as well as all of Austen’s novels. P&P is great, of course, but is there anyone more alpha than Captain Wentworth in Persuasion?

    Of course, I realize this would mean a ton of reading. Although it could possibly be done with movie clips. Anyway, just a thought. I know I’d love to read it.

  19. Dan in Philly March 23, 2011 at 7:57 am #

    Susan, I think it’s a great idea! P&P, seen through the eyes of game, has been done here. I think that “Wuthering Heights” is a given (though I didn’t care for that one, myself). Other would be “Little Women” “Cantebury Tales (The Wife of Bath)” most of Shakespeare’s plays, including Romeo and Juliet and the comedies, a lot of Dickens can be read through this lense, Lord Byron’s “Don Juan”, “War and Peace”, “Moby Dick” (just kidding on that one).

    If game is true, one should be able to see it in all great literature revolving around relationships between men and women, even if the authors of those books didn’t consider “Game” when writing them. Off the top of my head, I think I could write a game-ish review of almost all of those books, at least the aspects of them relating to relationships.

  20. Susan Walsh March 23, 2011 at 8:02 am #

    @Dan in Philly
    Ha! Taming of the Shrew is so obvious it probably doesn’t even merit a post. It’s not surprising that the best writers have nailed the timeless truth of male/female sexual dynamics.

  21. Dan in Philly March 23, 2011 at 8:33 am #

    Susan, there’s a reason “Taming” remains the most reviled of all of Shakespeare’s plays by feminists. Shakespeare’s ghost doesn’t mind, when fashion changes and it’s no longer considered poor taste to notice there are differences between males and females, this one will again be regarded as highly as it should be.

  22. The Deuce March 23, 2011 at 10:13 am #

    It’s worth noting that Rhett’s industrial-strength game is probably too much for the average joe running day game or church game. The strength of Rhett’s game was made necessary by the enormity of Scarlett’s ego and vanity.

    Well that and most guys don’t have writers.

  23. Aunt Haley March 23, 2011 at 11:29 am #

    Dan in Philly–
    We are like two ships Peerless passing in the night.

    Susan–
    That’s a LOT of reading. Movies or TV shows might be more doable.

    The Deuce–
    Well that and most guys don’t have writers.

    Cyrano, is that you??

    Also, if anyone wants more reading on the GWTW topic, Hana wrote a great companion post at her own blog that you should check out.

  24. Dan in Philly March 23, 2011 at 1:11 pm #

    Tante, I don’t get your peerless reference, which annoys me.

    As far as TV/movies goes, there are 2 problems with that. First, all are pretty much the same, beta man gets the girl/player (PUA or LTR guy) gets shown as a cartoonish cad/bufoon who loses every time. Second, mocking such shows is so much like shooting fish in a barrell it’s not much fun.

  25. Miss365 March 24, 2011 at 12:57 am #

    Badger – When a woman perceives her SMV to be above yours (i.e. inflated self esteem) is the time to neg – perceive is the key word. If she perceives lower value, you can leverage that delta by straight DHVing. To do this properly you need to have enough game to suss out her perception of the landscape in the first place.

    Coming from someone that would either crumble or think you were some massive ego driven idiot if you neg’ed me – I agree with the DHVing comment ( hate that I have to look this stuff up ! ) but it has little to do with ‘perceived lower value’ and more about not wanting to waste my time with idiots who are playing me or have no idea how to talk to me.

  26. Aunt Haley March 24, 2011 at 1:41 pm #

    Miss365–
    A neg is a playful jab. Done right, it shouldn’t be perceived as an insult, and moreover, you will find yourself more attracted to the man than if he had straight up complimented you.

  27. Badger March 25, 2011 at 6:32 am #

    Miss365,

    If you have such an ego that you can’t take a little teasing, you are exactly the type who needs to get negged.

  28. Old Guy March 25, 2011 at 8:44 am #

    Dan in Philly: Our hostess doesn’t seem inclined to explain the ships Peerless reference to you.

    Raffles v. Wichelhaus is a well-known English contracts case, at least among people who know about that sort of thing. A contract called for delivery of cotton, which was to arrive from India on a ship identified as “Peerless”. Unfortunately there were two such ships, and the buyer refused to accept delivery of cotton arriving on the second, weeks after after the first ship Peerless had been and gone.

    The Court accepted that buyer and seller intended different ships when they contracted. Since there had been no agreement on an essential term of the contract, the seller’s claim against the buyer failed.

    Our hostess is saying you’re using similar words but talking about different things, or something like that.

  29. knepper March 25, 2011 at 1:07 pm #

    Frankly, my Dear Aunt Haley, I DO give a damn! Very nicely done. Interesting that the epic movie ends, IIRC, with Scarlett endeavoring to win Rhett back after he delivers that famous neg of all negs. She deserved being kicked to the curb by Rhett, and she knew it, yet the thing that gave her hope was the thought that somehow she might win him back. Proof that Rhett’s game worked!

  30. Miss365 March 25, 2011 at 5:20 pm #

    Aunt Haley “Miss365–
    A neg is a playful jab. Done right, it shouldn’t be perceived as an insult, and moreover, you will find yourself more attracted to the man than if he had straight up complimented you.”

    Ok. That’s helpful. Thanks. And true.

    Badger “Miss365,

    If you have such an ego that you can’t take a little teasing, you are exactly the type who needs to get negged.”

    …and not.

    Again, I went back to Sir Google and found a bunch of examples so I could see where I was going wrong with my perception of this stuff.

    And all I can come to the conclusion is maybe I’m either reading the wrong examples or I’m just not a bitch to begin with.

    I do however enjoy back and forth good natured mocking and banter. I don’t respond well to guys that put me down just for the heck of it or because they think it will up their ‘game’.

    If this Neg thing is really a little flirty mocking followed up by a bit of a compliment in there somewhere. I’m hooked, yes.

  31. Anonymous March 26, 2011 at 12:59 am #

    I’ve teased nice girls hard during the daytime and they do indeed crumble. Whoo boy, the bad game regularly on display in the comments here! As bad as the stuff in the Roissy comment section.

  32. Miss365 March 27, 2011 at 2:00 am #

    Ahhh – alcohol softens the blow. Got it. Lol :)

  33. Badger March 27, 2011 at 8:53 am #

    “I’ve teased nice girls hard during the daytime and they do indeed crumble.”

    A lot of “nice” guys/girls are people who can’t bear the thought of another person upset with them or not liking them.
    VERY soft negs are called for, or none at all (negs are good

    The “daddy’s girl” meme goes two ways. Sometimes it means a woman who thinks her sh** doesn’t stink because she’s been daddy’s protected princess her whole life. Other times it means a women constantly trying to stay in the pleased graces of her father and by extension the other men in her life.

    “Whoo boy, the bad game regularly on display in the comments here! As bad as the stuff in the Roissy comment section.”

    I don’t have a photographic memory but I can’t say I’ve heard any “bad game” here at HH. Some anti-pedestal rhetoric yes, but who here is advocating pumping and dumping or constructing fake life stories to talk church girls into one-night stands? Maybe you’re thinking of Solomon’s defunct blog?

    “Ahhh – alcohol softens the blow. Got it. Lol :)”

    It’s not the alcohol, it’s that watering holes are usually where hot women with oversized egos congregate, so use of negs is presumed necessary.

  34. Badger March 27, 2011 at 8:54 am #

    Got cut off…

    “VERY soft negs are called for, or none at all (negs are good”

    good for people who really need to be taken down a peg.

  35. Anon April 1, 2011 at 12:52 am #

    As soon as I see “neg” and “Shit test” I feel like modern relationships are impossible and it completely turns me off.

    The problem is that if you “neg” back the men whine that you’re an emasculating bitch.

  36. Anon April 1, 2011 at 12:53 am #

    PS If you dish it out, make sure you can take it.

  37. Dan in Philly April 1, 2011 at 6:26 am #

    Anon, modern relationships are easy as long as there is love. S tests are women asking her man if she’s still worth the effort. Negs are men teasingly telling their women that they are.

    You can take the same dialogue between two people in love and, without changing a word, make it dialogue between two people who hate each other. The difference is a small and as great as a concept which is both overused and completely ignored in modern relationsips, love.

  38. Susan Walsh April 1, 2011 at 6:43 am #

    S tests are women asking her man if she’s still worth the effort. Negs are men teasingly telling their women that they are.

    I like this – never thought of it this way before.

  39. Dan in Philly April 1, 2011 at 6:54 am #

    Susan, ever since I realized that, I started to actually look forward to s tests from wifey, as I understand what she’s asking and how and why and I use these tests as an opportunity to reassure her of my love for her. The reaction is always so good I sometimes am dissapointed when she doesn’t feel the need to give one :)

  40. imnobody May 29, 2011 at 3:36 pm #

    Brilliant post Haley. It should be in the hall of fame of the Game community. Well done.

  41. Jennifer August 10, 2011 at 7:58 pm #

    Great way to simplify and insult women, modernguy.

    I hate the parts of “game” that go into manipulation and actual “playing”, as opposed to a genuine exchange; any such thing makes me wary. The reason I enjoy Scarlett and Rhett so much is that they are honest with each other. Or at least, Scarlett is eventually. Rhett told her those things because he meant them, not because he’d been told what verbal remarks to put in his arsenal to get himself laid. Even with her flaws, he ultimately found her captivating.

  42. Jennifer August 10, 2011 at 11:58 pm #

    I agree, Anon.

    “S tests are women asking her man if she’s still worth the effort. Negs are men teasingly telling their women that they are”

    I’m very glad that’s the way it is in marriage, or at least yours. But it’s different when the two don’t know each other; many negs feel like condescending insults, and shit-tests are often immature and unnecessary. When it’s an initial meeting, I don’t like the idea of telling guys, or anyone, “neg her juusst the right amount, and if you do this she’ll do that” kind of thing, like she’s a dumbwaiter that’ll decrease depending on how you pull her rope (or strings). Likewise, a woman who constantly plays games of her own is not worth the trouble. Teasing is just teasing, but negative teasing can backfire. I agree, when in an annoying shit test, that it is a good idea for a guy to stand his ground; what turns me off is the whole “this is all a game so have your weapons ready” type thing. Thanks for offering a more positive frame, Dan; your definition of a shit-test is definitely an emotional reflex sometimes women have, and it’s not fun for us, really.

  43. Jennifer October 11, 2011 at 12:00 am #

    “Brilliant post Haley. It should be in the hall of fame of the Game community”

    It does have the simplicity of so many game theories.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

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