THIS ARTICLE, I can’t even.

11 May

The article:  Heavy Issues for Heavy Women.  (So miraculous that NAMES HAVE BEEN CHANGED.)

The discussion thread:  Miracle on Matrimony Street.

A quote:

We’ve been married for almost seven years now. One child and an additional 35 pounds later [which makes her 290 at 5’3″], my husband is nothing but more attracted to my fat frame. And he gets a little annoyed about the guys who hit on me. Just as God had made some men who prefer brunettes, some who prefer tomboys, some who prefer bookish gals, God has given some guys a deep appreciation for fat women.

Especially in light of Roissy’s post on Why European Girls Stay Thin.

BRAIN GOES KABOOM.

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29 Responses to “THIS ARTICLE, I can’t even.”

  1. sdaedalus May 11, 2011 at 12:00 pm #

    Haley, and I speak as one relatively slim chick to another, you’d be surprised how often fat* chicks really do get hit on.

    I think the perception of attainability has a lot to do with it. Men who really do prefer fat women aside, a certain type of man will hit a lot on very hot women and a different type of man will hit a lot on less hot women and the rest of us in between get left out. Possibly we have admirers but they are not that forthcoming because we are not hot enough to overcome their inhibitions nor are we unhot enough that they feel they can safely dispense with them.

    Alternatively, it really could be the bigger boob factor.

    I think you live in California and maybe there fat women really are pariahs but that is not the case here. There are a lot of men who will not have anything to do with fat women romantically but that still leaves a lot who will and the ones who won’t aren’t necessarily always the most attractive or vice versa.

    *I am using the term to refer to s.o. who is obese not zaftig.

  2. jz May 11, 2011 at 12:07 pm #

    The author of the “Miracle on Matrimony St. wrote “the shared experience of loss (of each’s parents) brought them together.

    I’ve always thought that is how bonding occurs among the less attractive/low status singles. The emotional bonding trumps all else. And, from my limited observation, this emotional bonding is more durable than bonding by aesthetics.

    Example: “He believed in me, even when I was failing nursing school.” bonds with “She loves me, even though I’m fat.”

  3. collegeslacker May 11, 2011 at 12:15 pm #

    IME, fat chicks are the quickest to assume that any dude talking to them is hitting on them.

    The dudes that are actually hitting on them, two words:

    “Easy Sex”

  4. Aunt Haley May 11, 2011 at 2:54 pm #

    SDaedalus–
    as one relatively slim chick to another

    I’m relatively flattered? Ha.

    Alternatively, it really could be the bigger boob factor.

    It never pays to underestimate the power of big boobs.

    jz–
    I think you’re on to something.

    collegeslacker–
    IME, fat chicks are the quickest to assume that any dude talking to them is hitting on them.

    Well, in their defense, most girls have learned that guys only pay attention to the girls who interest them. Just as most men don’t hear “and is alpha” attached to women’s declarations of what they want in a man, most women don’t hear “and is hot” attached to men’s declarations of wanting female attention.

    However, in the case of the article, the author said that her husband is the one who gets irritated over other guys hitting on her. So presumably he has witnessed this happening.

  5. Kate May 11, 2011 at 3:11 pm #

    I think there is “overweight” and there is fat. A nicely plump woman is very attractive to many men, whereas both the grossly obese and the stick-thin curveless waifs of the fashion industry….not so much.

  6. jz May 11, 2011 at 6:10 pm #

    My example of shared emotional experiences was off. Better yet, “We both nearly failed nursing school, but supported each other to pass.” or “We share the experience of being fat, and understand and support each other.” or “we’ve both had dominating mothers, and can understand each other.”

  7. jack May 11, 2011 at 8:49 pm #

    So there are a few chubby chasers out there. Overweight girls should not count on this being an oft-repeated event.

    But then, who cares?

  8. Aunt Haley May 11, 2011 at 11:51 pm #

    Kate–
    the stick-thin curveless waifs of the fashion industry

    I would bet good money that those “stick-thin curveless waifs” all have the enviable 0.7 WHR. Both a thin woman and a thick woman can be curvy. Curvy isn’t synonymous with “fleshy.” Other than that, I agree that there is a segment of men who prefer women to be plumper than the very thin women starring in the media. Still, a curvy plump woman will trump a log-shaped plump woman.

  9. Kate May 12, 2011 at 8:58 am #

    I would bet good money that those “stick-thin curveless waifs” all have the enviable 0.7 WHR.

    I doubt it. Remember, they are mostly chosen by gay men. A study did show that playboy models average around .7, but I doubt runway models do.

  10. Old Guy May 12, 2011 at 9:49 am #

    There’s being attracted to fat women because they’re fat — which is at least as strange a fetish as any other committment to a “type”, brunettes, for example — and there’s finding some truly fat women attractive, which isn’t quite the same thing.

    Chubby women are a different story still: lots of men can look at a woman with 25% extra pounds and think “I could happily hit that over and over again.” If that’s true, chubby can be qualifying rather than disqualifying: if, say, you’re not going to fall in love with a woman who isn’t scary smart (which carries its risks, trust me), you may be better off with one whose SMV is somewhat diminished.

    It’s not settling, it’s optimizing!

  11. Wayfinder May 12, 2011 at 11:37 am #

    I’ll note two things about the generic male mind that might not be understood by women:
    1. What a man means when he says ‘fat’ is not the same thing as what the other girls in the locker room meant. Women seem to universally conflate ‘slightly chubby’ and ‘grossly overweight’ and not get that men usually make a distinction. (and yes, runway models *are* too thin.)
    2. There is a guy equivalent of the friend-zone; when a woman is too old, overweight, or otherwise not attractive she doesn’t register as a woman at all, so any attention doesn’t mean sexual interest. Age seems to be a bigger disqualifier than looks, from my observations.

  12. Aunt Haley May 12, 2011 at 12:00 pm #

    Kate–
    Do a search for the measurements of top high fashion runway models. I guarantee you they will all have WHRs in the range of 0.67-0.7, even though they are all very thin.

    Wayfinder–
    What a man means when he says ‘fat’ is not the same thing as what the other girls in the locker room meant. Women seem to universally conflate ‘slightly chubby’ and ‘grossly overweight’ and not get that men usually make a distinction.

    Are you sure about that? In my experience, men are the ones blasting the “slightly chubby” for being fat. At least that’s what it looks like on the internet.

    Maybe we need some pictures for reference.

  13. Wayfinder May 12, 2011 at 12:10 pm #

    @Haley
    Pictures are probably required, because I suspect your use of the term is different from my use of the term. Plus, there’s ‘too fat to have a relationship with’ and ‘too fat to have sex with’. Contrary to some people, you don’t have to be size zero, and there’s more space than some think, but there is a point where viewing an overweight woman stops triggering the primal ‘this is a woman’ response.

  14. Aunt Haley May 12, 2011 at 12:49 pm #

    Wayfinder–
    Feel free to post links to examples.

  15. y81 May 12, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    I don’t think we need pictures. Most models are size zero, which wikipedia says means dimensions in the 32-24-34 range. (My impression is that most models actually have slightly slimmer hips than that.) Maximally attractive dimensions for most American men would probably be more like 36-25-35. In fact, when you allow for the fact that most models are about 5’11”, the dimensions could even be an inch or two bigger and most men would find them just right.

    I think Haley’s analysis focuses unduly on WHR: most men (including myself) want big boobs.

  16. Wayfinder May 12, 2011 at 4:15 pm #

    @Haley
    Sorry, the only examples that come to mind at the moment are personal acquatances, and I’m not posting their pictures. I think y81 has it about right though.

  17. Langobard May 13, 2011 at 12:15 pm #

    2. There is a guy equivalent of the friend-zone; when a woman is too old, overweight, or otherwise not attractive she doesn’t register as a woman at all, so any attention doesn’t mean sexual interest. Age seems to be a bigger disqualifier than looks, from my observations. @Wayfinder

    Eh, not as much as you may think – or wish to believe:

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/item_tevaoeTPhWS3WDDEW3xkaJ

    As I said in the previous post regarding “cougars”, thanks to so many overly eager men looking for the path of least resistance to “free” and “easy” sex, scores of men hit on all kinds of women, regardless of age, weight, or physical unattractiveness.

    Being that the majority of Americans, particularly women, are overweight, so many men looking to “score” obviously don’t have too much choice in the matter if they’re looking to ratch up “notches in their bedpost” – and, being males, brainwashed by our degenerate, promiscuous “culture”, especially “PUA” dirtbags – think they should never turn down “free sex” (although in reality there is no such thing) from virtually any willing woman.

    Then guys wonder why older, overweight and/or unattractive women are entitlement princesses with “attitudes” – cause they get hit on a regular basis by desperate (and as we have seen with the not-so-desperate Steve Phillips and the “Tubby Temptress”) guys looking for an easy “lay”.

    Men – you reap what you sow with women, so please choose one very carefully.

  18. Aunt Haley May 13, 2011 at 6:22 pm #

    y81–
    most men (including myself) want big boobs.

    Well, now I know why finding a date is so hard.

    Wayfinder–
    Google too much work for you, bro?

    Langobard–
    being males, brainwashed by our degenerate, promiscuous “culture”, especially “PUA” dirtbags – think they should never turn down “free sex” (although in reality there is no such thing) from virtually any willing woman.

    Doesn’t it make more sense to say that some men want sex more than they want to be picky about women? Culturally conditioning men to be picky about which women they have sex with would not be very effective so long as a significant number of men continue to be horndogs.

  19. Lover of Wisdom May 13, 2011 at 7:33 pm #

    I don’t think most men prefer big boobs to anything else. I’m sure it’s a spread over boobs, ass, legs, and overall form. A five foot nothing can have A cups and the overall boob presentation can be very appealing to men. I’m more of a legs and ass guy myself.

  20. Miss365 May 14, 2011 at 1:27 am #

    What’s making your brain go kaboom Haley? The fact that significantly overweight/obese women are still found attractive? Can find a partner, get married, have kids? Or just is it that somehow it just doesn’t seem “fair”?

    Women who are comfortable in their own skin are attractive. Most men will see that and some will look beyond how much extra padding she happens to have around her frame and see the beauty of who she is within and *that* is what’s attractive. The woman in this article sounded like she accepted her body, looked after it and liked who she was despite what the world and her family were telling her. Good for her! I would love to be as comfortable in my skin as she appears to be. And in part that’s why I think I’m still single because I’m *not* comfortable in my own skin. Work in progress. :)

  21. Aunt Haley May 14, 2011 at 11:15 am #

    Miss365–
    In a nutshell, my problem with the article is that it reads less as a celebration of God’s providential intervention in a fat girl’s love life and more as a celebration of obesity combined with “not settling for less than God’s best” while letting yourself go physically. It just boggles my mind that a woman who is obese and becoming more so without regret is being held up as an inspiration to the rest of us singletons.

  22. knepper May 14, 2011 at 3:57 pm #

    Right–it should be obvious that obesity is not ‘God’s best’ for anyone. She really needs to look into low-carb/Paleo diets–but then again, she doesn’t think she has a problem.
    It is very hard to believe that this could be a common occurance. As Wayfinder says, obese women are generally invisible to most men (sounds like a contradiction!)

  23. Ceer May 14, 2011 at 5:17 pm #

    @y81

    There was a study about boob size and male attraction. I believe the gist of the response was that boob size mattered less than facial beauty and waste to hip ratio, and about as many men preferred smaller boobs as larger boobs.

    Personally, my taste in women is that she be relatively thin (for an american woman, at least) and a pretty face. WHR and breast size are not as important, but I’ll take a .6 – .8 WHR and a C cup or smaller if I can get it.

    @ Old Guy

    Your “optimizing” will probably result in a more stable LTR/marriage, but stable doesn’t necessarily mean happy. Roissy’s post about the fat woman/beta man dynamic is an example. IMO, the best mechanic for keeping a marriage together is a mutual emotional bond on all levels combined with a mutual respect for the spouse and a slight drive to increase their SMV together. Low to medium sex drive (or a corresponding higher discipline) helps too.

    @ Miss365

    There is a big difference between body image and overall self esteem. For a woman, it’s possible to have a strong desire to loose weight and still maintain overall good self esteem.

    Example 1: a woman who used to weigh 110 lbs who now weighs 170 lbs can exercise a few times a week, eat less, and talk to her social circle about other changes she can make to her routine to get the poundage to come off… AND realize she is the child of God, has made good life choices up until that point, and focus on showing men a good personality whether or not the pounds come off.

    Example 2: A few years back, I saw a representative from a team of obese synchronized swimmers on a late night talk show. She was dressed in a skimpy outfit. They showed video of her and her team in swim suits performing. In response to being asked if she should be doing this, she said: “if you’ve got it, flaunt it!” My friend actually snorted in laughter, saying this and responded to the TV: “honey, you do NOT have it.”

    My own reactions to these 2 examples of real people is that miss number 1 has a low body image, but high self esteem. She has a certain attractiveness about her. While that’s not enough to overcome her physical unattractiveness (objectively, she’s a 4 even at prime age), I have to admit I’ve fantasized occasionally about what a relationship would be like.

    Contrast this with example 2 who made me and my friend wretch.

  24. Hermit May 15, 2011 at 1:22 am #

    “And he gets a little annoyed about the guys who hit on me.”

    My guess, based on personal experience, is that because of her weight, she overdoes it when talking to people. She’s the one that’s flirting, or at least it comes across that way, and the guys she talks to are just responding.

  25. anon dude May 15, 2011 at 8:04 am #

    290 lb at 5’3″ is disgusting.

  26. Aunt Haley May 15, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    knepper–
    it should be obvious that obesity is not ‘God’s best’ for anyone.

    I agree, but the author’s point was that SHE was holding out for “God’s best” despite fielding marriage proposals and other attention from men. Said she:

    I never settled, and I even turned down two marriage proposals that I didn’t believe were God’s direction for my life. I wasn’t going to marry someone I shouldn’t for fear that I’d never get another proposal. I knew God’s standards, and I wasn’t about to settle for less than His best for me.

    Ceer–
    Personally, my taste in women is that she be relatively thin (for an american woman, at least) and a pretty face. WHR and breast size are not as important, but I’ll take a .6 – .8 WHR and a C cup or smaller if I can get it.

    This just in: Ceer is attracted to conventionally attractive women!

    While that’s not enough to overcome her physical unattractiveness (objectively, she’s a 4 even at prime age), I have to admit I’ve fantasized occasionally about what a relationship would be like.

    Just remember, everyone looks the same in the dark.

    Hermit–
    The whole article had a very hamster-y feel to it.

    anon dude–
    290 lb at 5’3″ is disgusting.

    Only on the outside!

  27. Ceer May 15, 2011 at 9:00 pm #

    @Haley

    I’ve heard somewhere that the average female breast size now is something like a DD. Not sure how true that is. My major point to y81 was that I like smaller than average boobs, preferably on a thinner than average woman. I’m sure many other men out there are the same.

  28. Old Guy May 16, 2011 at 12:27 am #

    Ceer: Do you really think that a man who marries a woman who isn’t the most physically attractive woman he can marry has jeopardized his chances for happiness? Get serious.

    Guys have an advantage that women don’t: they think lots of women look kind of great — think of the rear view of the woman who does it for Paige’s husband a month back. This means men can “settle” for chubby without giving up much that really matters to them in exchange for something that does. My point was, chubby might be a cheap way to get more of something else that really matters in the SMP.

    Apparently, for women a man’s attractiveness is more categorical,and a woman who is willing to settle will more often be faced with choosing a man who doesn’t do it for her at all. (That’s what I took from Haley’s “If It Weren’t for the Sex” and her comments.) It seems men can more easily think of their alternatives in marginal terms, and “settle” by exchanging sexual attractiveness for other qualities, simply because there are more women they’d be happy to have sex with.

  29. Paige May 18, 2011 at 2:10 pm #

    My weight fluctuates quite a bit. Of course I get hit on most at my lower weights but at the higher weights (up to 180lbs on a 5’4 frame) I still get occasionally hit on. Maybe they think I am easy…I don’t know…but it would definitely have me fooled into thinking that being chubby wouldn’t doom me to a life of loneliness.

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