Don’t marry a pro-choice woman.

24 Sep

Let me preface what I’m about to say with the acknowledgment that many good women are nominally pro-choice, which is to say that their bleeding hearts won’t permit them to legally “force” any woman into a pregnancy she doesn’t want but they are in general horrified by the idea of a woman having a baby cut up and scraped out of her uterus.  Such women typically believe strongly in contraception and “responsible sex” and do not believe in abortion as back-up birth control.  These aren’t the women I’m referring to.

Rather, the type of woman I’m referring to is the type who is ideologically committed to the complete autonomy of a woman’s body to the point where an unborn baby may be considered a parasite and that even a husband has no say and deserves no say in his wife’s choice to abort their child.

I don’t think there are that many type 2 pro-choice women in the United States, but they’re certainly the most vocal when it comes to sex reproductive issues “women’s health.”  A good example of such a voice is the group of writers on Grey’s Anatomy, which on Thursday had a married female character (Cristina) abort her unborn child because being a mother would just get in the way of being a surgeon, which was her top priority, plus she had never wanted children and believed she would not love her child and would be a dreadful mother.  That in itself was bad enough, but what made it even worse was that this character’s husband (Owen) wanted her to have the baby and wanted to be a father.  Despite his wishes, Cristina was determined to abort their child and (in a bid to get viewers on her side) gave her best friend Meredith a speech about how she really wished she could want a child and how she wished her husband could be supportive of her and understand her, instead of leaving her sad and scared that she was going to have to abort alone.  Sadness and fear, obviously, mitigate all moral consequence.  As a result, Meredith went to Owen and talked about how she (Meredith) had been raised by a mother who loved surgery more than her daughter and how awful that was, and that if Cristina did the same thing, it would “kill” her.  Strangely enough, Meredith did not also add that it would have been preferable that she had never been born, or that her late mother regretted having a daughter who cared for her in her struggle with Alzheimer’s disease.  Owen – an Iraq War vet, by the way – was then convinced that it was right for him to accompany his wife to the murder of their unborn child, and he dutifully burned his man card on the altar of feminism.  I guess viewers were supposed to take this as an example of true love, or at least that the woman is always right.  My opinion was that the writers had just made Cristina one of the most morally repugnant women to appear on the small screen and that if I had been in Owen’s shoes, I would have shown up at the abortionist’s with divorce papers.

It was interesting to read the opinions on Owen and Cristina’s actions because they illuminated the divisions within the pro-choice crowd.  At least in the comments at ew.com, about two thirds of the commenters thought Cristina behaved disgustingly.  Sure, the commenters supported a woman’s right to choose, but people who get abortions aren’t supposed to be financially secure, educated, intelligent, married women.  (And how can a SURGEON not know how to practice birth control, or at least get a tubal ligation?)  Furthermore, there was no indication of problems with the pregnancy.  Healthy unborn babies products of conception aren’t supposed to aborted, only the damaged ones.  The other third celebrated Cristina’s decision to exercise her full rights over her body and “remain true to herself,” because it would have been a compromise to her self-identity had she chosen to go through with the pregnancy.  If Cristina had had a baby, the parasites would have won.

Obviously, most people will never go through a real life version of this fictional drama, but the ideological stakes are real.  Among Christians I would presume that most will be pro-life, with varying stances only on issues like rape or health of the mother.  Regardless, for Christians or non-Christians, this is an issue I would definitely check out before the relationship becomes serious enough for marriage.  While you may not go through a scenario just like Cristina and Owen’s, you may face a scenario in which you conceive a child with Down’s syndrome, or a chromosomal disorder that makes it unlikely that your child will survive for very long outside the womb, or some other physical flaw.  You may face a scenario where the pregnancy may endanger the health of the mother.  Knowing what you both believe, and that you are in agreement on those beliefs, could save your marriage someday.

P.S.  Men, if you begin dating a woman who would deny any rights of your paternity to your unborn child, RUN!!!

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30 Responses to “Don’t marry a pro-choice woman.”

  1. Bob September 24, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    A friend of mine married a pro-life woman… until, of course, she got pregnant at an inconvenient time. I don’t know the precise circumstances, nor do I want to, but he was really shaken up about it. Oddly enough, he had originally married her because she got knocked up and he felt is was his job to “take responsibility” for it. So he has one daughter he did not ask for, and does not have another kid even though he wanted it. For this and many other reasons, one of the most disgusting human beings I have ever had the misfortune to know.

    Hopefully his daughter, and any future kids he may have, can recognize just how messed up their mother is and overcome it, but I somewhat doubt that’ll happen.

    Point is, the knife cuts both ways for us menfolk. The term “pro-choice” makes me laugh; at the same time, “man up” can be used to silence a grieving would-be father or to make demands on an unwilling father-to-be. But I suppose that’s what happens when you give any one human being the power to determine whether or not someone else is human (Godwin’s law notwithstanding, other examples of that power include Nazis, slaveholders, communists, and any number of genocidal efforts).

  2. DavidIN September 24, 2011 at 12:24 pm #

    I guess we’ve discovered the reason why TV characters who get pregnant will talk a great deal about abortion but always keep their baby. Because abortion really is crossing a moral event horizon.

  3. lifeinlonglegs September 24, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    the mother and father of an aborted baby also go through incredible trauma afterwards – this affects not only the child, but the entire family unit, even years later. The harm is exponential.

    If you really don’t want your baby, give it up for adoption. There are many couples who could and would raise it as their own. I think of friends who are childless and how much joy that would bring to their lives. I think also how much I would have missed out on if my adopted friends had been aborted instead. I also think of a friend who was assaulted and STILL kept her baby and the amazing mom she is to that child. Enhancing visibility and accessibility of other non-abortive options would make many more such stories reality.

    The sad thing is, that abortion is presented as a ‘medical event’ -the logical, even preferred option in health care settings: to the detriment and in the place of other routes. Especially if there is something ‘wrong’ with the child. “We can’t fix your baby, do you want to kill it?” …How is this good healthcare? They might as well just hand the mother a gun right after she gives birth and have her shoot the baby. Seems horrific, but what’s the bottom line difference between paying someone to kill your baby when it is inside of you and killing it when it is outside of you? I don’t believe there is a real difference, aside from timeframes. If you can’t kill your baby yourself, don’t pay someone else to do it.

    In my country, it is illegal for me to have a baby for a childless couple and for them to pay me for that service, but my taxes pay someone to kill other people’s babies and I don’t have a choice about it.

    Yah. That sounds about right. [insert sarcasm].

  4. Jennifer September 24, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

    Brilliant, Haley. Agree on all points.

  5. Herbie September 24, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    A woman’s position(s) on abortion should be carefully considered by a man who is entertaining the thought of making her his wife, as it may provide a glimpse into how she does or does not respect him as a man and therefore have potential implications regarding fidelity. This is not to say that other character traits aren’t important — they are.

  6. Kathy September 24, 2011 at 5:10 pm #

    “Healthy unborn babies products of conception aren’t supposed to aborted, only the damaged ones.”

    No, murder is murder. We are all God’s children. We are none of us perfect. We are all damaged in some way shape or form.

    I had four pregnancies, and ended up with two children I had a baby with a neural tube defect (anenchephally) who was stilborn prematurely at nearly 27 weeks. The scan at 16 weeks indicated that my baby would die at birth or soon after. I declined the offer of an abortion.. Obviously… It was very hard.. To feel your baby kicking inside of you knowing that she was going to die.. (God gave me a reprieve however and my waters broke early.) However, God gives life, and only he can take it away.. God got me through that very hard time. He helped me to carry my almost unbearable cross. As agonizing as it was I do not think that I have ever been closer to God then I was when I had to endure such an ordeal. I offered my sufferings up to him uniting them with those of my dear Jesus who suffered and died for my sins.. I accepted his will.

    God gave me a wonderful husband who loved and supported me. Cried with me. We
    comforted each other. We buried our little daughter in her little white coffin. Just the two of us at the graveside with the priest saying some beautiful prayers, sending her off to
    heaven.

    My husband composed this prayer which we say to this day, every day..

    We pray with love to you Mary Rose
    Your life on Earth was not meant to be
    But you left us with a love and a strength that is everlasting.
    Please watch over your family
    Keep us safe
    Sustain our love of God and
    Guard us in our day to day trials
    Help us to obtain a place in heaven so that we may be reunited with you when our time comes.
    We love you Mary Rose.

    Abortion is NOT the easy way or right way out. Not ever. Not under any circumstances!

  7. Chris September 24, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    My mother had me out of wedlock. She was a nursing student — I ended her career (well not actually — she “went to the country”, had me and gave me up for adoption, returned to nursing training and chose to leave because she wanted to marry her husband and father of her children a year or so later). In the murderous, shallow, and short-sighted world of the Grays Anatomizers, I would have been aborted.

    I had my first child out of wedlock. The woman ran before I got her to the altar. I then had the joy some nineteen years later of listening to my daughter — who I was just getting to know again — tell me she was pregnant.

    And she has had the kid, who is a joy and vexation (as all kids are) married the father, and now is a mother of three.

    I count my daughter and her children as blessings, not tissue that should have been aborted. My contempt for the US elite is tempered but with the fact that their policies mean that they are dying out, which will improve the moral character of your nation.

  8. Jennifer September 24, 2011 at 7:12 pm #

    “Grey’s Anatomy”, frankly speaking, is more shallow and urnealistic than “Sex and the City”, which actually managed to have hit-home episodes about abortion and adultery.

  9. Aunt Haley September 24, 2011 at 7:35 pm #

    There is no episode of Sex and the City that is more revolting than the one where Carrie and Samantha talk about the abortions they had. Because their big-city lives of having indiscriminate sex and, in Carrie’s case, spending over $40,000 on designer shoes were just too important to let a baby get in the way of.

  10. Jennifer September 24, 2011 at 7:50 pm #

    I think Carrie aborted because she was scared and young; she probably didn’t even have the money to buy so much when she was in her early-twenties and had the abortion(s). The point was, Miranda, often a cynic and selfish herself, chose to have her baby and Carrie’s BF gave her a guy’s perspective about whether a guy should know or not. Plus, Charlotte offered a totally different perspective about a woman really wanting a family and how the idea of abortion would affect them.

  11. y81 September 24, 2011 at 8:15 pm #

    To each his own, I guess, but imagine what St. Augustine would think of spending one’s spare time watching brain-rotting drivel which is not only intellectually vacuous (that part might not offend him) but morally offensive. Wouldn’t it be more productive to be volunteering at some Christian activity where some young men–not to mention the Holy Spirit–might be present?

  12. dragnet September 24, 2011 at 8:41 pm #

    This is going to sound weird, I’m bothered less by the abortion than I am by the show depicting the father going along with it in the end. That women have unilateral control over whether their pregnancies are carried to term is, largely, the undisputed law of the land at this point in time. Hardcore, morally repugnant feminists are going to push to normalize awful shit like this from time to time and they’ll get away with it for the most part, unfortunately.

    But that doesn’t mean guys/husbands/fathers have to be supportive of this crap, and that’s what kills me here. It’s not enough for these women that they get to abort their babies, now they need the putative fathers to tag along in meek support. That was the real propaganda here—that guys are obliged to go along with it.

    Truly revolting.

  13. grizzledwolf September 24, 2011 at 9:34 pm #

    I think the reverse is also true. Women should have nothing to do with men who pressure women into abortion.

    It is a new kind of barbarism that makes us eat our children for the sake of shiny baubles. Even the most bloodthirsty of our ancestors never sank that low.

  14. Jennifer September 24, 2011 at 9:49 pm #

    Sure they did; women had aborting potions back then, and I’m sure some tribes killed babies because of lack of food, married parents, correct gender, etc.

  15. AndrewV September 24, 2011 at 10:58 pm #

    I was and still am in theory pro-choice.

    What I discovered at the time many years ago it is one thing to hold a position in principle, and what you really feel and actually do when the chips are down may not be the same.

    My gut twisted when my girlfriend at the time said that she wanted an abortion, after I said I would marry her and/or support her so she could keep it. In the end it turned out to be a false alarm.

    Would she have really gone through with the abortion?

    I do not know. What I do know is that I left her shortly after that, because it was a wedge between us that I could not get over.

  16. Lainey September 25, 2011 at 10:05 am #

    I was engaged to be married before I met my husband. My fiance told me that he had impregnated his previous girlfriend. She wanted to have the baby, and he called a meeting with her and her parents about the pregnancy. Everyone wanted her to abort, and she did. It was one of the first red flags I had about him. He’s a nice guy, but didn’t want kids. He is married now and still doesn’t want kids. I have a lot of kids.

    A lot of people like to bring up unwanted children and abuse and neglect up as evidence that abortion is better than an unwanted child being brought into the world. While my foster daughters have had a rough time of it, they are lovely people who love life. I can’t imagine anyone telling them that they should have been aborted.

    I also knew plenty of people that used abortion as birth control. I was raised as a pro-choice feminist, but the second I felt my son move in my belly I knew I had been wrong. My mom still tries to indoctrinate my kids about abortion. They always look horrified that their own grandma is pro-choice, and vocal about it.

    Don’t forget that a small part of the reason women choose abortion instead of adoption is the father gets first rights at adoption. Something to think about, and why I tell my boys that if they cannot wait until marriage to never sleep with a woman that is not mom/wife material.

  17. Langobard September 25, 2011 at 9:46 pm #

    There is no episode of Sex and the City that is more revolting than the one where Carrie and Samantha talk about the abortions they had. Because their big-city lives of having indiscriminate sex and, in Carrie’s case, spending over $40,000 on designer shoes were just too important to let a baby get in the way of. @Haley

    This show is pure, unadulterated *evil* trash.

    But like all the other evil Hollywierd peddles, it is slyly ‘sold’ and adroitly ‘marketed’.

    “The Marketing of Evil” reveals how much of what Americans once almost universally abhorred has been packaged, perfumed, gift-wrapped and sold to them as though it had great value. Highly skilled marketers, playing on our deeply felt national values of fairness, generosity and tolerance, have persuaded us to embrace as enlightened and noble that which all previous generations since America’s founding regarded as grossly self-destructive – in a word, evil.

    In the end, “The Marketing of Evil” is an up-close, modern-day look at what is traditionally known as “temptation” – the art and science of making evil look good.

  18. Will S. September 26, 2011 at 5:42 am #

    @ y81, Langobard: Yeah, sad that Christian women get caught up in that worldly crap. And Twilight, and… everything else that comes out of Hollywood.

  19. Jennifer September 26, 2011 at 6:28 am #

    Lango, not all topics in the show are that cut and dry. In the episode mentioned, Miranda asks about abortion and Samantha says rather flippantly, “I’ve had two. How many have you had?” to Carrie. Carrie responds, “Um, ONE” with a pointed look implying that she thinks it’s a bigger deal than Samantha and not a usual practice. Later on, she ponders the choice she made years ago and, as she told Aidan at the end, “I was 22. I should have known better”. Charlotte’s openly against it and Aidan voices disagreement with not letting the father know. When Miranda decides to keep the baby and tell her boyfriend on her own, it’s quite a moving ending. I don’t like all the episodes, but they (especially Carrie) ponder morality far more than most similar Hollywood women..

  20. grizzledwolf September 27, 2011 at 1:20 am #

    “Sure they did; women had aborting potions back then, and I’m sure some tribes killed babies because of lack of food, married parents, correct gender, etc.”

    Individuals, yes. But were their actions sanctioned by the wider culture? When the Spartans or the Romans aborted their children, it was due to a horribly twisted belief in human perfection. But that shines in comparison to aborting because one wants to keep the SATC lifestyle.

  21. deti September 27, 2011 at 6:30 am #

    The point is that marrying a type 2 pro choice woman is a disaster because she does not have interpersonal relationships nor a relationship to a husband in proper perspective.

    She does not care what her husband thinks about this most intimate area of their lives together. She will do whatever she wants, when she wants. This type is capable not only of aborting a child against the father’s will, but also of making her husband a father against his will by refusing to use birth control or “conveniently” forgetting it.

    A type 2 prochoice woman will never respect a husband, and thus should forever be deprived of one.

  22. Jennifer September 27, 2011 at 8:48 am #

    “it was due to a horribly twisted belief in human perfection. But that shines in comparison to aborting because one wants to keep the SATC lifestyle”

    I don’t think so; they aborted/killed late-term babies or even born babies, whereas women today generally at least have early-term.

  23. Langobard September 27, 2011 at 11:17 am #

    Lango, not all topics in the show are that cut and dry. In the episode mentioned, Miranda asks about abortion and Samantha says rather flippantly, “I’ve had two. How many have you had?” to Carrie. Carrie responds, “Um, ONE” with a pointed look implying that she thinks it’s a bigger deal than Samantha and not a usual practice. Later on, she ponders the choice she made years ago and, as she told Aidan at the end, “I was 22. I should have known better”. Charlotte’s openly against it and Aidan voices disagreement with not letting the father know. When Miranda decides to keep the baby and tell her boyfriend on her own, it’s quite a moving ending. I don’t like all the episodes, but they (especially Carrie) ponder morality far more than most similar Hollywood women..

    I of course understand where you are coming from here Jen, and I agree that not every episode in the the show is totally bad or evil.

    However, theirin lies the rub, and why evil, like Kupelian’s book demonstrates, and especially in shows like these, often comes dressed in flowers, perfume and pearls – iow, for evil to be marketed and sold to essentially good and decent people – it has to pretend to be something it is not.

    Fundamentally with pop-‘culture’ shows it boils down to sprinkling in a few, absolutely wretched, episodes of the bad – leavened with more episodes that, at least putatively with Hollyweird, demonstrate the ‘good’ – or at least that which is not overly confrontational or controversial to Middle America’s sensibilities.

  24. Langobard September 27, 2011 at 11:19 am #

    ^ ^ ^

    Meant to italicise Jennifer’s comment, the first paragraph.

  25. Jennifer September 27, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    I think the writers of that show are pretty open about their intentions with it. They could easily make the characters as stupid, vapid, and sluttish as the ones in “Grey’s Anatomy” and other shows (no, believe it or not, the characters in SATC do not have random sex at their workplaces), but they didn’t.

  26. Jennifer September 27, 2011 at 2:03 pm #

    I am indeed looking forward to that book, “The Marketing of Evil.”

  27. Kane September 28, 2011 at 7:07 pm #

    A woman who has an abortion is no better than a man who gets a woman pregnant and then decides he wants no part in the child’s life.

    Women who get abortions should be shamed just as much as deadbeat dads.

  28. Jennifer September 28, 2011 at 8:31 pm #

    Actually more, Kane; deadbeat dads don’t usually kill their kids. But we should also remember that men often pressure girlfriends into abortions.

  29. lifeinlonglegs September 29, 2011 at 8:04 pm #

    “men often pressure girlfriends into abortions” — yes. but ultimately, the decision to walk in the clinic is hers so she’s not absolved of responsibility for that decision any more than she is of the decision to have sex in the first place. Having compassion for people does not mean we have to absolve them of their responsibility in a situation. far from it.

  30. Jennifer September 30, 2011 at 5:31 am #

    Didn’t say it was, though ignorance about fetal development is also rampant in young people of both sexes.

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