Video: why men and women can’t be friends.

12 Dec

Res ipsa loquitur, but these kids are probably too young to have any familiarity with When Harry Met Sally. Click play and watch the hamsters spin.

 

(BTW, does this mean that only un-fat, generally attractive girls use the library at Utah State?  Are there no fat girls at Utah State?  Or did the filmmakers use size-ism to make their point???  If so, the whole thing is discredited!  Discredited, I sayyyy!)

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106 Responses to “Video: why men and women can’t be friends.”

  1. Strong Man December 12, 2011 at 2:06 pm #

    Okay! This was absolutely fun! Thanks.

  2. Will S. December 12, 2011 at 2:30 pm #

    The guys are completely honest; the girls try to delude at least the interviewer, if not themselves, till forced to admit the truth. No surprise there…

  3. Lover of Wisdom December 12, 2011 at 3:28 pm #

    This video is awesome!

  4. ASDF December 12, 2011 at 4:12 pm #

    At the end of the video, he says that he interviewed everyone in the library, for whatever that’s worth.

    The mountain west states are among the healthiest, so maybe the student body really is filled with skinny outdoors buffs. Here is one that always gets me. Why are the student sections at football games so filled with hot chicks? They don’t hand tickets out by hotness, but have you seen the camera pan the crowd at a Florida game? I’d swear the average is about an 8.

  5. John December 12, 2011 at 4:26 pm #

    @ASDF – I don’t know about all schools but usually the prime student section seats are reserved by the fraternities and sororities… and the greek houses tend to be QUITE selective about who is “up to their standards.” The cameramen are also very aware that the majority of the sports viewers are half-drunken males who will enjoy seeing the cheerleaders and attractive female students as opposed to the frumpy girl with glasses on the back row. Hence the phenomenon of always seeing “hot” college girls in the stands.

  6. namae nanka December 12, 2011 at 5:47 pm #

    sexist men that need more correction before they grow into such chauvinists.

  7. samsonsjawbone December 12, 2011 at 6:27 pm #

    Wow, I’ve been out of college long enough –

    – and let me digress and say that watching this video has reminded me of how much better (i.e., sweeter, kinder and less self-centred) women get with age and maturity –

    – anyhow, it’s been a while since I’ve seen such classic college-age solipsistic, entitled fitness-testing. The female body language throughout the clip is instructive! Check out the 2:00 mark, for instance, and watch how she positively sneers, “No, we *can* be friends,” but then he sails through that fitness-test so she laughs a moment later.

    And on that note, I must say that this is the kind of guy I’ve come to like – because I’ve come to respect him and his Game. I’d like to have seen how he handled the 1:10 chick’s “Yes…?” – as in, “Yes, of course, and why is your miserable self even talking to me?

  8. samsonsjawbone December 12, 2011 at 6:30 pm #

    I’m also really disappointed by 1:45 girl. I initially thought she had a sweet appearance, until she blew it big-time with that sarcastic, “Well, yeah?!”

  9. samsonsjawbone December 12, 2011 at 6:36 pm #

    I suppose I’m also surprised by how aware these women seem to be that these guys do like them. Is this a lesson on female deviousness? The fact that these women seem so self-confident in their attractiveness suggests to me that they are not entirely representative of the student body.

  10. Will S. December 12, 2011 at 7:18 pm #

    I wonder whether any cherry-picking of attractive women was premeditated, or, well, the filmmaker guy just wanted to talk to / shoot them, and not to the others. Let’s face it; even if just for a documentary shoot, would you rather talk to a pretty girl or a plain, or worse, big one? Anyway, attractive women are usually fairly aware of their effect on men, even if they play naive; they usually know, even if they otherwise happen to be dumb.

  11. y81 December 12, 2011 at 7:21 pm #

    As I noted before, the students on this video are VERY different from the yuppies I used to know and be in NYC. One additional thing I notice is the strange use of the verb “like,” which everyone on the video appears to instantly understand as “is sexually attracted to” (as in the phrase “he likes you”). I was doing my little Martha-esque thing at the book table this Sunday, and a prospective customer asked about C.S. Lewis’s “The Four Loves.” My book table partner commented on the impoverished emotional language of our contemporary culture, and I described the use of the verb “like” in this video, which we both thought was very funny.

  12. Anna December 12, 2011 at 7:24 pm #

    The girls are not (necessarily) trying to be emotionally manipulative with the guys they are friends with. Men generally value friendship with women less than women value friendship with men, but women don’t realize this. Men will HAPPILY ruin a friendship if it will lead to sex (either right away or through marriage).

  13. Will S. December 12, 2011 at 7:44 pm #

    “Men generally value friendship with women less than women value friendship with men, but women don’t realize this.”

    Not only do we value friendship with women less than women value friendship with men, but we value friendship with women far less than friendship with other men. That’s because opposite-sex friendships, for guys, always have an element of imbalance; usually or often, anyway, unless the woman is fat and/or ugly and/or a dyke, there’s some degree of attraction on the part of the guy, as even all these women in this video will admit, when forced to. So it’s an imbalanced, unhealthy friendship, that only exists to the extent that a man stifles his natural inclinations, and just ‘hangs out’ with said girl, while not getting anywhere romantically. Meanwhile, the woman gets the benefit of male attention, which is always flattering, even if not the attraction isn’t reciprocated, and all the other benefits of a relationship without the costs – increased intimacy, etc. Male-female friendships are imbalanced, normally, in favour of the woman. Whereas a male friend, to another male, is the truest kind of friend he could have (and rare; men have fewer but closer real friends than women, usually preferring to only hang out with those who are real friends, rather than casual, acquaintance-level so-called friends).

    “Men will HAPPILY ruin a friendship if it will lead to sex (either right away or through marriage).”

    That’s because women don’t have anything else to offer men, as friends, that they can’t get from their male buddies. Andrew Dice Clay, the comedian, once put it a bit crudely but truthfully, when he said, “I hate when guys say, “she has a great personality”. My friend Joey has a great personality; but I don’t want him to blow me.” All the personality in the world a woman might have means nothing to me, if there isn’t the possibility I could get with her (and as a Christian, I do mean marriage, ultimately, as a possibility with any woman I would consider dating; no other reason for Christians to date, after all – but yeah, marriage does mean sex, and that I certainly don’t want with my male buddies, my pals, but I would like with a woman who wears a band of gold I placed on her finger…).

    The guys who are friends with these women in this video haven’t clued in yet, that their status will never, ever change; there’s no hope for them. They’ve been friend-zoned, stuck on the friend ladder, and will never jump to the boyfriend ladder. Some of us have clued in, though, and eschew friendships with single young women, at all costs, only dating them, or otherwise having nothing to do with them whatsoever. I got male friends with personality, after all. I don’t need to help a girl shop for shoes or dresses or whatever – nor do I need her help in shopping for clothes myself. To heck with that!

  14. Kathy December 12, 2011 at 9:59 pm #

    Well said Will. Unfortunately there are some women around who just don’t how men think, or feel.. No do they care.. It’s all about them.

  15. Will S. December 12, 2011 at 10:03 pm #

    Thanks Kathy!

    Alas, indeed; there are far too many of such young women, today…

  16. Ceer December 12, 2011 at 10:44 pm #

    Women have one thing to offer men that men can’t get solely through friendships with other men: preselection. A pretty female friend can be used as a good pivot or wing to help with the snagging of babes. There are many reasons why a guy would prefer this: she’s someone else’s girlfriend, she has out of wedlock kids, she’s too bitchy or masculine later in the relationship…

  17. Will S. December 13, 2011 at 4:57 am #

    Ceer, I think that applies more to the bar scene, than it does to a church setting, for example. IOW, preselection is more important when people are trying to form quick judgments about others, which is more the case for those looking to ‘score’, rather than those more interested in potentially long-term relationships. Though I’m sure a guy with more female friends at church does look more attractive to other women, than a guy without any…

    I have female friends, but they’re all the girlfriends / fiancees / wives of my male friends. I prefer it that way.

  18. Jennifer December 13, 2011 at 7:02 am #

    “I have female friends, but they’re all the girlfriends / fiancees / wives of my male friends”

    Well, at least that works out; it can be good and instructive to have friends of the opposite sex. You hardly need to shop with a girl to be her friend.

    Good Lord, Ceer, that’s all you think a female friend would be good for? And Kathy, I don’t see how it’d be selfish for a girl simply to want or appreciate a guy as her friend. How is that selfish? Because she’s not sleeping with him? Unless she knows he likes her more deeply and is using him, she is not being selfish by wanting/liking the friendship.

  19. Jennifer December 13, 2011 at 7:17 am #

    Is the gist of things here that, if a man’s happy being my friend and I’m not taken, then I should assume he finds me ugly or fat? Obviously it means he wouldn’t be attracted to me, but that does mean he must find me ugly?

  20. Will S. December 13, 2011 at 7:48 am #

    Jennifer, did you even watch the video? Every girl there initially answered that yes, guys and girls can be friends, but later admitted that at least one or some of their guy friends would like to date them, if they reciprocated their feelings. So then, if you have a guy friend who didn’t have a girlfriend when you two first became friends, either he would like to date you, secretly, and is hiding his feelings (and you’ll nevertheless probably know this, unless you’re completely clueless), or else he finds you fat or ugly, or you’re gay, yes.

    It isn’t instructive for a guy to have girls as friends, quite apart from even fashion advice considerations, because all they ever tell, in the advice they might give, is what they would want out of a guy they are already attracted to you; they never tell you how to attract the kind of girl you might like, because they’re not self-aware enough, generally. Or they give you advice better suited for women trying to attract a guy. Or in telling you what they think you should look for in a girl, they really tell you what they look for in a guy. Or they try to set you up with their fat, ugly friends. Etc. Other than what Ceer mentions, preselection, young women are pretty useless at helping guys get with a girl, because they lack adequate self-awareness, till they mature. And also, as Kathy points out, they really don’t understand or care about young men, how they feel, what they think, because it’s all about them.

    (Cue the “NAWALT!” chorus.)

  21. Jennifer December 13, 2011 at 7:50 am #

    I’m sad to hear that. I’ve had pretty cool friendships with guys. Never a best friend, but nice pals. No, I didn’t watch the vid, I was asking about your own words.

  22. Will S. December 13, 2011 at 9:27 am #

    Watch it and learn. It might well be like a mirror.

    BTW, I also don’t take relationship advice from my female friends who are gfs / wives of my buddies. They’re also useless. I wouldn’t let anyone play matchmaker for me, except a guy who had dated a certain girl but broken up with her, but knowing me and her both, figured we might make a good match. I did that once for a friend, and he’s now married to my ex-. Guys are better matchmakers than girls, any day.

  23. Elspeth December 13, 2011 at 10:35 am #

    Women can be so dense.

    And no Jen, I don’t hate myself. Just stating the obvious. I think the video was quite instructive on the nature of male/female relationships.

  24. Jennifer December 13, 2011 at 10:50 am #

    I know plenty of women can be quite dense, Elspeth, and see evidence in anyone who over-generalizes. This is perhaps why I never expected my male friends to shop with me.

  25. imnobody December 13, 2011 at 11:24 am #

    Will S. at 7:44 pm nailed it.

    It took me years of pain to find out that being a friend with a girl was a sh*tty deal. When I have the least proof that a woman has friend-zoned me, I leave the friendship.

  26. Jennifer December 13, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    That’s nice.

  27. Jennifer December 13, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    “When I have the least proof that a woman has friend-zoned me, I leave the friendship”

    So every friendship you enter isn’t meant to be a friendship?

  28. Kathy December 13, 2011 at 4:01 pm #

    There are women who treat men like trimmings on a Christmas tree, Jen. They keep them around just to make themselves look (and feel) good..

    I have sent you an email, because I am running out of time(for debate)and Christmas is nigh, so gotta make tracks. ;)

  29. Jennifer December 13, 2011 at 4:54 pm #

    Yes, thanks for your explanations on the full subject, Kathy :) Women like that are just awful; it’s like they think they’re queens with their ladies-in-waiting (girlfriends) and their, I don’t know, entourage of admirers (male friends) trailing them everywhere. There’s no excuse for using men that they know want something else. I’d never treat a man like that; I never ask men to go shopping anyway, because I’m realistic and respect what they like.

  30. Lily December 13, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    “When I have the least proof that a woman has friend-zoned me, I leave the friendship””
    Classic.

  31. Will S. December 14, 2011 at 6:18 am #

  32. Jzb December 14, 2011 at 6:37 am #

    Spot on, as a guy I don’t have “friends” that are women. There’s nothing a woman who isn’t my girlfriend has to offer me. In essence I don’t need friends who are girls, and I have plenty of friends who are guys who greatly enrich my life.

    I certainly appreciate the female perspective on things, and am able to hear it when I hang out with my married friends, at social events at church, etc. There are quite a few girls from social circles, at church, etc that I think are great and I enjoy being around them in said group settings. However I have no interest or desire to ever call them just to chat or hang out with them one on one. I can do that with my guy friends, and it’s quite satisfying to do so.

    The only friendship/intimate relationship I want with a woman is with my girlfriend/wife, she’s the only women I want to spend time with, share life experiences with, etc. If at any point I desire purely platonic companionship my relationships with my friends who are men more than satisfy that desire.

  33. Jzb December 14, 2011 at 6:51 am #

    Here’s a related life experience btw:

    I dated a girl for a few months about four years ago. It wasn’t much of a relationship and we were both somewhat frustrated by how things were playing out. Ultimately she decided that she wanted to call it quits. After she stated this, she proceeded to say the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard in my life

    “But I still want to be friends with you! I want to see your roommates, hang out with your family, and everything!”

    Immediately I thought to myself “WTF?!? Are you fricken delusional? What makes you think that would ever happen? The only reason why you spent holidays with my family, hung out with my roommates and I, etc is because you were my girlfriend. Now that you’re not my girlfriend, those things do not happen for you”. Seriously ladies, can someone tell me what she was thinking when she made that statement? It defies logic!

    I immediately stopped calling her/txting her/hanging out with her as we weren’t in a relationship anymore. I cordially had to let her know I would do this when she continued to call/txt me the following week in an attempt to chat/hang out/etc.

    But seriously I can’t help but be continually dumbfounded by what she said. I’ll never get it, it’ll never seem anything less than absurd/preposterous. And I don’t say that out of a place of hurt or bitterness. I’m really OK with us not dating (in fact she has stated that she wants to date again on several different occasions, I’m not interested for several reasons, none of which are related to bitterness/vengeance/etc).

  34. Kathy December 14, 2011 at 6:56 am #

    Ha ha ha ha.. Will, that’s a classic..

  35. Will S. December 14, 2011 at 8:09 am #

    @ Kathy: Oh yeah! :)

    @ Jzb: She wanted to have her cake and eat it. The benefits, to her, without providing any benefits, for you. Sadly, she wasn’t all that delusional, because all too many guys will give that to women. I’ve been up-front, with any woman who has been my gf, that she can’t expect to stay friends with me if we break up. Even so, I’ve had those who’ve tried to convince me to, but I’ve not given in. We men need to stop giving into such demands to remain friends with them after it’s over. And we need to not make friends in the first place, with those who won’t date us. They really have nothing to offer us that we can’t get from our guy friends; we can get female perspectives, if we really need them, from our mothers, buddies’ gfs / wives, etc.; we can get the benefit of ‘preselection’ effects, if need be, from friendship with our buddies’ gfs / wives.

  36. Aunt Haley December 14, 2011 at 8:16 am #

    Women usually want to be friends after a break-up because they don’t want to believe the only reason a man was dating them was for sex/hope for sex. Women become very disappointed when they find out a man they’ve rejected was only in it for sex, i.e., if you enjoyed watching movies or hanging out before, and now you don’t want to, then you were only in it for sex, therefore you “didn’t really like her” are shallow and butthurt and all men are dogs, etc.

  37. Jennifer December 14, 2011 at 8:49 am #

    The one thing that is good is to be open the whole time; neither girls nor boys like being used.

  38. Jzb December 14, 2011 at 9:19 am #

    Haley,

    “Women usually want to be friends after a break-up because they don’t want to believe the only reason a man was dating them was for marriage/hope for marriage”

    Do women want to believe that?

    Can a woman be ok with the idea that a man is looking for a wife and so when he discovers that the relationship won’t lead to marriage he stops communication? (regardless of who ended the relationship, although obviously I can’t see why a woman wouldn’t get why a man cuts her off if she breaks up with him if he still has feelings for her).

    I guess I don’t get it in the context where the two people involved are believers. I suppose it makes sense if they’re not believers and are ok with sleeping with whomever whenever and or sex before marriage.

  39. Aunt Haley December 14, 2011 at 9:59 am #

    Jzb–
    Maybe if the couple had seriously considered marriage, but for shorter-term relationships that hadn’t gotten that serious, women become disappointed to discover that the guy didn’t really like her but was just interested in the end point of sex and that once sex was off the table, he wanted nothing to do with her. It tells women that they’re only valuable for their vaginas, which for most women is a really depressing thought.

  40. Old Guy December 14, 2011 at 12:01 pm #

    Oh, come on, Haley. A man can think that sex (or hope for sex) is essential without thinking that it’s enough. (Seriously, it’s clear you’re familiar with words like “necessary” and “sufficient”.)

  41. Will S. December 14, 2011 at 12:26 pm #

    Christians should only be dating each other, ideally, with the idea in their heads that this other person may or may not be, a possible contender for the role of spouse – which, at that time, would entail sex, yes, but isn’t supposed to, beforehand. Therefore, the rejection of either person in a relationship by the other, really shouldn’t be taken as ‘he / she only wanted sex’ when that was only a long-term possibility; rather, he/she was exploring the potential for long-term compatibility, lining up of common values, goals, aspirations, etc. And if one person perceives that there isn’t long-term compatibility, why should the other be overly upset when the first breaks off the relationship? If you didn’t do anything wrong, you have nothing to regret as far as sexual matters go, nor any need to feel the other only ended it because no sex was happening; not supposed to, for us Christians, anyway.

    Like I’ve said, apart from hope of sex (in the long term), opposite-sex friendships don’t have anything to offer guys any different from what they can get from same-sex friendships. So why waste each other’s time? Move on; start afresh…

  42. Will S. December 14, 2011 at 12:31 pm #

    “It tells women that they’re only valuable for their vaginas, which for most women is a really depressing thought.”

    That is foolish of women to think that way, because men don’t just marry vaginas, they marry women. Men want their smile, and their love, as well as their vagina, their wombs for bearing children, their housekeeping and cooking skills, etc. The whole package.

  43. Jennifer December 14, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    I don’t think she was describing Christian guys, Will. I disagree that you can’t get anything different from female friends than male; really? That’s like implying the sexes aren’t really different. If you only want to have female friends if they’re taken, that’s fine, they can still be good.

  44. Will S. December 14, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    Jennifer, I already said what different perspectives one can get from women, one can get from gfs / wives of friends, or your mother, so no need to seek that out from single unattached women. Why pursue friendship with a woman, when you could instead pursue the possibility of a life together? Similarly, if the latter is not in the cards, why bother?

    Heck, I can get the benefit of female perspectives from here, the blogosphere. That, plus the attached women I know, and my mother, is sufficient for me.

  45. Jennifer December 14, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    “Similarly, if the latter is not in the cards, why bother?”

    A female friend can be great, but it sounds like you already have them, just not unattached ones. I’m not saying you need to seek the latter women, just that I’ve seen and had some cool friendships like that back in school and later, in Bible study (a great place to meet people of like mind and stay friendly even if romances don’t branch out). I’m sometimes wary of perspectives in the blogosphere, myself. I’ve learned some cool things, but just prefer men in real life. Still, trusted online friends are really cool and helpful.

  46. dragnet December 14, 2011 at 2:53 pm #

    Nice video.

    I have had a few friends who are girls…but they are girls I am either, 1) not attracted to, or 2) girls I’ve already slept with, or 3) girls I have a fuck buddy arrangement with.

    The last time I was friends with a girl I was physically attracted to—and did not have sex with her at some point—I was a sophomore in high school.

  47. PT Barnum December 14, 2011 at 6:36 pm #

    The problem with being friends is that you, as the man, need to enforce boundaries and stop her from taking advantage of you. Most women can’t control the desire to try to get free stuff from men who are attracted to them. So you need to shut that down.

    This requires a lot more willpower than most men have though.

    Then again, I once turned down a girl because I didn’t want to help her cheat on her boyfriend, so I suppose that probably puts me on the far tail of the curve.

  48. Will S. December 14, 2011 at 6:50 pm #

    @ Jennifer: I have lots. All my closest buddies from high school are married, and I’m as close friends with their wives as I am with them; anything I can tell my buddies, I can share with their wives; it’s all good. I don’t let them set me up with their girlfriends, though; I’ll make my own decisions in that regard, without their help.

  49. Will S. December 14, 2011 at 7:04 pm #

    @ PT Barnum: Plus who wants to be the shoulder for her to cry on / sounding board to bitch at, about the guys she WILL date? @#$% that. No being the hug supplier, the ‘it’s alright; he’s an ass, you didn’t need him anyway’, blah blah blah, ego booster / mood lifter, if I derive no tangible benefit from it.

    When I was younger, I was beta, and allowed that, because I didn’t know any better; I naively thought such women would suddenly notice me, there with them all along, and the light bulb go off over their heads. It doesn’t. No more; I have regained my self-respect; no woman is going to manipulate and use me like that, ever again…

    I hope other guys do not have to take as many years as I did to learn from my errors. Don’t do it. Be the guy she complains to other chumps about – don’t be one of those chumps. ;) And pass it on!

  50. Jennifer December 14, 2011 at 9:57 pm #

    “Be the guy she complains to other chumps about”

    Hopefully because you’re her man, not merely a jerk.

    “Im as close friends with their wives as I am with them; anything I can tell my buddies, I can share with their wives”

    That’s really cool. You already have a female support system, then, so to speak.

    As for women using, some women are like the video hens, but others may genuinely not know how their male friends feel because they’re being very timid about it, thinking being a totally platonic friend will make sparks. But, regardless, if she’s really treating him like a female friend, always coming to cry to him or, God forbid, taking him shopping, it’s time to speak up. Unless a man’s gay, he’s just not into that.

  51. Will S. December 14, 2011 at 10:29 pm #

    They’re just friends, Jennifer; I don’t have nor need a ‘female support system’, lol…

  52. Jennifer December 14, 2011 at 10:54 pm #

    Well, that’s what I meant, though I imagine that’s naturally not what men would call it, lol. Too corny.

  53. Will S. December 14, 2011 at 11:11 pm #

    No; not merely corny; but rather, implying that a man without one is in need of one; that he’s somehow lacking, if he doesn’t have that, in his life. To which I say, bullshit!

  54. Jennifer December 15, 2011 at 12:59 am #

    That wasn’t my meaning, either.

  55. Jennifer December 15, 2011 at 1:33 am #

    Just a stupid way of describing female friends.

  56. Will S. December 15, 2011 at 4:36 am #

    Ah, I see.

  57. deti December 15, 2011 at 7:32 am #

    WIll S. Dec 12 2011 at 7:44 has it right.
    1. In a male-female friendship, the woman gets all the benefits, the man none.
    2. A man cannot get anything from a female friend that he cannot also get from a male friendship.
    3. The woman knows about the attraction part and nips it in the bud with a well placed LJBF.
    4. The man DLV’s when he continually hangs out with a woman he’s not dating or sleeping with.
    5. But the woman gets the benefit of male attention. She knows he is attracted to her; she keeps him around for that validation. She has no intention of ever reciprocating; he will always be “just a friend”. This is of no benefit to the man.

  58. deti December 15, 2011 at 7:35 am #

    I used to hang out with a lot of female friends in college. The women I hung with were generally plain to average; none above a 5. I routinely got LJBF’d when asking out other women. What I usually heard was something like “you’re always with your ‘girl friends’.” or “I thought you were gay.”

    There’s no benefit to a man hanging around women he’s not dating or sleeping with.

  59. Will S. December 15, 2011 at 7:50 am #

    “There’s no benefit to a man hanging around women he’s not dating or sleeping with.”

    Exactly, deti. None, whatsoever.

  60. Jennifer December 15, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    You really have typically hardened, Deti. I would never have recommended hanging around with a swarm of women, though.

  61. deti December 15, 2011 at 10:48 am #

    Jennifer:

    Perhaps I’m going through my anger phase. I’ll be over it soon. In any event, it’s difficult to realize that what you thought was truth really wasn’t. It’s difficult to realize that your parents, pastors, teachers, and adults in authority over you and charged with the responsibility of teaching you about male-female relationships literally lied to you through their teeth, made fraudulent representations to you about male female relationships, or at best were criminally ignorant about them.

  62. deti December 15, 2011 at 10:49 am #

    Jennifer: Is there anything inaccurate in my comments?

  63. Jennifer December 15, 2011 at 10:58 am #

    In my experience, yes, some comments are inaccurate IF you universally apply them. But you’re entitled to your opinion and observations. I’m sorry you’re going through anger, I know the feeling, because there are lies at both extremes. If your teachers etc told you supplicating and being female-like is best, they indeed need a hard wake-up.

  64. deti December 15, 2011 at 12:01 pm #

    Jen: I’ll be all right.

  65. imnobody December 15, 2011 at 3:28 pm #

    “When I have the least proof that a woman has friend-zoned me, I leave the friendship”

    So every friendship you enter isn’t meant to be a friendship?

    No, only friendships I enter with women I am attracted to. A friendship like this is only to the benefit of the woman as Will S. explained it beautifully, better than I could with my broken English.

    However, I have very good friendships with men and unattractive women.

  66. imnobody December 15, 2011 at 3:59 pm #

    Friends abound. Female perspectives abound: from my mother, my sisters, my female cousins, my aunts, my friends’ wives, my friend’s mothers, my unattractive or older female friends and so on and so forth.

    An attractive woman friend does not add anything that you have and can give you a lot of hassle and pain. Life is too short.

    Of course, many women don’t understand that because they are not interested in understanding it. Like the girls in the video: they say one thing and when they are pressured, they say the opposite. None so blind as those who will not see

    Plus who wants to be the shoulder for her to cry on / sounding board to bitch at, about the guys she WILL date? @#$% that. No being the hug supplier, the ‘it’s alright; he’s an ass, you didn’t need him anyway’, blah blah blah, ego booster / mood lifter, if I derive no tangible benefit from it.

    Will S, did you know me when I was 20? How do you know my story so well? Stop disclosing my past or I’ll sue you. LOL!!

  67. imnobody December 15, 2011 at 4:04 pm #

    It’s difficult to realize that your parents, pastors, teachers, and adults in authority over you and charged with the responsibility of teaching you about male-female relationships literally lied to you through their teeth, made fraudulent representations to you about male female relationships, or at best were criminally ignorant about them.

    I remember this phase too. I was really angry for years. The thing I hated the most was that I lost almost 20 years of my life trying to follow a false script who was doomed for failure.

    There is a poem in my native language that I used to paraphrase this way: “Do you want to know, my friend, why have the men of my generation lost the best years of their lives in pain, pursuing a chimera? Our parents lied to us, that’s why”.

    But this will also pass. Give it some time, my friend.

  68. imnobody December 15, 2011 at 4:13 pm #

    Women become very disappointed when they find out a man they’ve rejected was only in it for sex, i.e., if you enjoyed watching movies or hanging out before, and now you don’t want to, then you were only in it for sex, therefore you “didn’t really like her” are shallow and butthurt and all men are dogs, etc.

    Yes, I know this argument. It is “he didn’t love me FOR ME”. This is also used when the girl gains thirty pounds and she is SHOCKED you are not that attracted to her anymore.

    My girlfriend once tried to give me this argument when I told her that both of us had to stay fit for the other person.

    I told her: “Well, you’re right. We are loving each other only because of our personality. So I am never going to marry you, I am never going to have kids with you, I am never going to cohabit with you, I am leaving my job and spend my time surfing the Internet. But you will always be with me, because you love me FOR ME, not because of money or anything else.

    You can gain weight too if you want and I will love you FOR YOU. Do we have a deal?”

    She didn’t answer but three days after, she started going to a gym.

  69. Will S. December 15, 2011 at 4:24 pm #

    @ imnobody: “Of course, many women don’t understand that because they are not interested in understanding it. Like the girls in the video: they say one thing and when they are pressured, they say the opposite. None so blind as those who will not see.”

    Exactly! They say the opposite later, because they know that’s the real truth. Why they try to deceive others and/or themselves, the first time they’re asked, is simple: they want us men to BELIEVE that single men and women can be true, real friends, without complications, even though, deep down, they KNOW that’s NOT true, because they WANT men to keep being their ego-boosterers, their flatterers, their shoulders to cry on, their bitching boards, etc. So they LIE to us, as they did to the cameraman. And their sisters cry “NAWALT!” (“Not all women are like that!”) As if that matters. MWAILT – most women are indeed like that… So, to heck with them.

    “Will S, did you know me when I was 20? How do you know my story so well? Stop disclosing my past or I’ll sue you. LOL!!”

    :)

    It’s a universal story, across cultures, languages, the world over. Every guy can learn and profit from our examples, if they have ears to listen.

    Other young men out there reading? Listen to imnobody, deti, and I. Ignore the NAWALTers, the excusers; those who seek to preserve the social and relational imbalance of friendships with single young women. Ask out girls, and date them; otherwise, ignore them. As for the preselection / the social proof thing; let your buddies’ girlfriends and wives serve that role, if need be… But don’t take romantic advice from them, because most young women’s advice to men, sucks; it’s all projection, only seeing things from their POV.

  70. Will S. December 15, 2011 at 4:27 pm #

    @ imnobody: interesting; are you still with the girlfriend who wanted you to not care if she gained weight? Has she lost and kept off the weight?

    In the long run, of course, with marriage and kids, weight gain may still happen, to at least a small degree. But if both partners work at it, it can be minimized, obviously.

  71. Jennifer December 15, 2011 at 4:38 pm #

    Being a bum does not compare to weight gain, Nobody. Many online men try to project their own notions of beauty on other men, though. Most of you now sound convinced that any basically attractive woman just wants to trick a man into being her shopping pal and tear-pillow. And selecting friends based on the fact that you think them ugly? Really? Not being your type is one thing, labeling them as ugly or the equivalent is another.

  72. Jennifer December 15, 2011 at 4:48 pm #

    I do, however, agree with staying fit for each other.

  73. Hana December 15, 2011 at 4:48 pm #

    It does go both ways, you know…there isn’t much point in women being friends with men they’re attracted to, either. Male-female friendships where the girl is attracted and the man isn’t aren’t as common; but they do happen. Girls like the flattery of being friends with men they aren’t sexually attracted to, but it’s just as frustrating and upsetting for girls to find their male friends attractive, when the men don’t return the feelings. For example, in Christian circles, there’s always a few worship leaders/youth leaders who seem very eligible…and the kinder and friendlier they are, the more attractive they’ll seem. And unlike the secular world, these men won’t use girls for sex, so their female friends don’t get anything out of the relationship except some sighs and tears…

    But actually, I do think women have a better chance of turning a friendship into a romantic relationship than men do. The reason why is that men downgrade their SMV by befriending girls, whereas women stay about the same or can even increase their attractiveness a bit. A woman who develops an emotional bond with a man can show off her most feminine traits; but a man who develops an emotional bond with a woman, without showing off any other traits, seems less manly and plants himself firmly in the “friend zone.”

    Hm – I just read what I wrote and that actually makes things really confusing! It seems like the best advice for men would be to never befriend a woman, but I’ve seen situations where male/female friends end up dating after quite a while of being “just friends.” I guess the strategy is to have a realistic sense of your own “league” plus your feelings about the other person, and their feelings about you. The things is, if you’re in a close social circle with people of different genders, you almost have to be friends with all of them, regardless of your feelings about each other. I think male/female friendships can work…if the two people are realistic about their feelings and the other person’s feelings and the chances of the relationship leading to something more. It just takes a lot of maturity and self-sacrifice on both sides (to accept that someone will never be interested; to respect someone you can never feel attracted to; and to be humble enough to give someone a chance if you’re not totally unattracted).

  74. Hana December 15, 2011 at 5:00 pm #

    Also, I should add that the girls in the video obviously don’t have enough humility to deal with their male friends properly. They’re all super-confident about their own attractiveness; but for my POV, the men in the video aren’t that unattractive or below these girls’ leagues. In a few years, once they’re all out of college, the shoe will be on the other foot…the girls will suddenly be more interested in their guy friends and the guy friends will likely have moved on.

    Girls shouldn’t befriend guys they’re totally uninterested in; the thing is, college girls like the ones in the video have an unrealistic sense of their league anyway…they probably should give their guy friends a chance, but won’t, until they’re older and have fewer options.

  75. The Man Who Was . . . December 15, 2011 at 5:00 pm #

    1. In a male-female friendship, the woman gets all the benefits, the man none.

    False.

    2. A man cannot get anything from a female friend that he cannot also get from a male friendship.

    False. Some women are interesting people in their own right and not replaceable. Many of them have feminine charm. And sometimes you want a break from other guys.

    You just have to make clear-headed decisions about why you are being friends with a girl. Are you really getting something back from the girl?

    It makes it much easier if there is some large, obvious barrier to you getting together romantically.

  76. Hana December 15, 2011 at 5:08 pm #

    “1. In a male-female friendship, the woman gets all the benefits, the man none.

    False.

    2. A man cannot get anything from a female friend that he cannot also get from a male friendship.

    False. Some women are interesting people in their own right and not replaceable. Many of them have feminine charm. And sometimes you want a break from other guys.

    You just have to make clear-headed decisions about why you are being friends with a girl. Are you really getting something back from the girl?

    It makes it much easier if there is some large, obvious barrier to you getting together romantically.”

    Yeah…I think sometimes male/female friendships are inevitable (note: I’m not talking about close friendships, but casual friendships). If you hang around with a mixed-gender group of people, you can’t really avoid any one of them, regardless of your feelings or lack thereof for each other (I’ve learned this!) The thing is, *mostly*, people hang around with people who are somewhat in their league anyway (friends are usually equals). You have to treat each other with some basic respect as human beings…respecting each other’s attraction/lack thereof, but also giving each other a chance if there’s any possibility of something more. I mean, I agree, male-female friendships are often a bad idea, but you can’t totally segregate yourself, either.

  77. Jennifer December 15, 2011 at 5:23 pm #

    Dang, great comments, you guys!

    I do agree with Nobody on some points: you really don’t need to try and be friends with someone you’re very attracted to. And no, you don’t NEED single friends of the opposite sex either. I just don’t want people getting or giving the impression that all single, attractive women are users.

  78. OffTheCuff December 15, 2011 at 8:19 pm #

    Friends can turn into lovers, but only if you have the right frame through the entire friendship. Seen it happen plenty of times.

    The friend-zone thing, while very true if you have a scarcity frame, is a bit overblown. Coming from a frame of abundance (read: you have another lover), then it is no obstacle.

  79. imnobody December 16, 2011 at 2:42 am #

    @ imnobody: interesting; are you still with the girlfriend who wanted you to not care if she gained weight? Has she lost and kept off the weight?

    Yes, she is my girlfriend and it is an amazing girlfriend in all respects. If there are no surprises, she will be my wife.

    Of course, she lost weight and she still goes to the gym. She is a very slim woman but she had gained four pounds in six months with no reason and I wanted to solve the problem before these four pounds became twenty pounds (I also exercise regularly and stay fit)

    The problem with women is that they don’t understand how important is visual beauty for men. This is one of the difference between sexes. For women, physical beauty is important but is not paramount. For men, it’s paramount.

    You CAN’T love the same way a woman who is pretty than a woman who is forty pounds overweight. It’s not that you don’t WANT. It’s that you CAN’T, no matter how hard you try. We are wired this way.

    Is this unfair? Of course, it is: some of the better women I have known were remarkably ugly. But this is only one of the many things that are not fair in life (men have theirs too).

    Is this changeable? You can change your appearance to a certain extent (diet, clothing, makeup) but only to a certain extent. Women delude themselves thinking that they can change this with shaming language (“You are man enough to deal with a REAL woman!”), with campaigns and PR (“Fat Acceptance Movement”). This is delusional and it won’t work.

    Is this men’s fault? Absolutely not. I would like not to be this way. You can send your complains to God@heaven.com. Thank you very much.

  80. imnobody December 16, 2011 at 2:45 am #

    Well I don’t know what happen to a long comment I sent. I said that my girlfriend is still with me and that women don’t understand that physical beauty is paramount for men. This is unfair but this is the way God made us.

  81. imnobody December 16, 2011 at 2:49 am #

    Being a bum does not compare to weight gain, Nobody.

    Not for a women. But it can be for a man.

    This was not the point, Jennifer and you know it. You are being disingenuous. The point is that nobody loves other person FOR HIM/HER, at least when it comes to marriage. Besides personality, there are other things. For men, it can be beauty. For women it can be the provider status or the possibility of having a family. Love does not occur in a vacuum.

  82. imnobody December 16, 2011 at 2:54 am #

    @ imnobody: interesting; are you still with the girlfriend who wanted you to not care if she gained weight? Has she lost and kept off the weight?

    The answer is YES in all the questions. She is an amazing woman. I am grateful of having her.

    In the long run, of course, with marriage and kids, weight gain may still happen, to at least a small degree. But if both partners work at it, it can be minimized, obviously.

    Of course, of course, I am not demanding the impossible. Everyone ages and gains weight. But if you work at it, it can be minimized. I work to stay fit regularly without obsessing about it.

    As I said in the deleted comment, my gf is a very slender person, but she had gained four pounds in six months with no reason. I only wanted the four pounds not becoming 40 pounds.

  83. Will S. December 16, 2011 at 3:30 am #

    In a group setting, such as a Bible study, one will of course end up encountering the same people of both sexes continually; but that doesn’t necessarily entail developing close friendships with any of them; all that matters, is you get along with all of them, and are civil to each other. Friendships, as opposed to being casual acquaintances, is another matter, altogether.

  84. Will S. December 16, 2011 at 3:46 am #

    IOW, yeah, in a group setting, like a Bible study group, sure, I’ll chat with, and associate with, everyone in the group, male and female alike – and enjoy their company, certainly. But only perhaps with a few people, typically, will I necessarily end up associating much with, outside the group setting; hanging out with in smaller groups, or one-on-one. At least, that’s always been my experience.

  85. Jennifer December 16, 2011 at 9:17 am #

    “The point is that nobody loves other person FOR HIM/HER, at least when it comes to marriage”

    I think that’s a sad way to think. Of course staying fit is important for attraction, but the absolutism you show simply isn’t true for everyone. No, I wasn’t being disingenuous; I understood your point, but you made a list of things very drastic in comparison to weight gain.

  86. deti December 16, 2011 at 11:57 am #

    Hana’s reply on “hanging out” with a mixed group reveals the truth of the matter, IMO. She makes a distinction between friends and “casual” friends. But a man and woman who “hang out” as “casual friends” are not really friends at all.

    Quite simply, if a man is giving a woman attention, 95% of the time he is sexually interested in her. I would venture that 80% of the time or more, the woman who is the subject of that attention knows full well that he has sexual interest in her. I would also venture that she is fully prepared to shut him down with an LJBF if he expresses anything more than “friendship” Interest in her. She also wants him to stay around, so she can continue using him for validation, emotional tampon functions, and attention.

    So she clearly gets all the benefits, he bears all the burdens.

  87. Will S. December 16, 2011 at 12:13 pm #

    Indeed, deti; I think people should not use the word ‘friend’ so lightly, when ‘acquaintance’ is what they really mean. The difference is huge. Friends are close, by definition, or else, they’re not really friends. People one is sociable with, but not on the level of friends, are merely acquaintances.

    I partially blame Facebook for the general sloppiness re: the term friend, in our society today, because people get used to thinking of anyone they have as a contact on Facebook as a friend, since you’re either a ‘friend’ or not, if I’m not mistaken about how it works (I don’t do Facebook, I’m going by second-hand info. here). So that encourages sloppy thinking and language.

  88. Will S. December 16, 2011 at 12:21 pm #

    @ deti: “I would venture that 80% of the time or more, the woman who is the subject of that attention knows full well that he has sexual interest in her.”

    Agreed. Most women are not stupid; they can tell that, certainly.

    “I would also venture that she is fully prepared to shut him down with an LJBF if he expresses anything more than “friendship” Interest in her. She also wants him to stay around, so she can continue using him for validation, emotional tampon functions, and attention.

    So she clearly gets all the benefits, he bears all the burdens.”

    Yep.

    Even my mom has copped to having, back in college, ‘guy friends’ who liked her beyond friendship (one of whom she went on one date with but then told him ‘LJBF’ afterwards), in whom she had no interest whatsoever, but whom she kept as close friends. I never pressed as to why; some of these have remained friends, though of course they’ve all married long since. I don’t know why they didn’t, after marrying, stop being friends with her – except that they doubtless had by that time gotten over their feelings of attraction, and a real friendship, of social equals, could progress, at that point.

  89. Jennifer December 16, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    I personally don’t even pick friends on FB unless they’re either people I know, or writers I like (and usually I’ve even spoken to those writers). I don’t like these loose terms at all. Far more annoying, though, is the teen word “luuve” or worse, “luurve”. Auuuurrgghhh. They’ve redefined love and now spell it stupidly for full effect; that kind of thing makes me want to punch a mouth.

  90. Hana December 16, 2011 at 4:27 pm #

    “Hana’s reply on “hanging out” with a mixed group reveals the truth of the matter, IMO. She makes a distinction between friends and “casual” friends. But a man and woman who “hang out” as “casual friends” are not really friends at all.

    Quite simply, if a man is giving a woman attention, 95% of the time he is sexually interested in her. I would venture that 80% of the time or more, the woman who is the subject of that attention knows full well that he has sexual interest in her. I would also venture that she is fully prepared to shut him down with an LJBF if he expresses anything more than “friendship” Interest in her. She also wants him to stay around, so she can continue using him for validation, emotional tampon functions, and attention.

    So she clearly gets all the benefits, he bears all the burdens.”

    Okay…to clarify things, I was distinguishing between talking one-on-one while in a group setting, and actually hanging out one-on-one. I would definitely agree with the idea that women should not be “friends” (like regularly spending one-on-one time) with men they’re not attracted to when these men are obviously attracted to them. And yeah, girls selfishly do this, but in fairness, they don’t always realize *how* much it affects the guys.

    But as people in the manosphere know, men need to clearly express their intentions so the girls know how to react. I don’t think the distinction between acquaintances and friendships is always that clear-cut, because a man can be “giving a woman attention” in both contexts. It could be anything from consistent emails and calls and a real friendship, to occasional texts or messages or offers of a ride. Sometimes, as a girl, I can get suspicious that someone “likes” me, but unless the guy actually says anything, I don’t know for sure. Men are sexually attracted to a lot of women, but they’re more picky about who they actually want to have relationships with. So there’s a good chance that a guy might be attracted if he pays me attention, but unless he says anything, I feel like there’s no reason for me to be other than friendly.

    Unless men make a clear move, sometimes girls really aren’t sure what you want. As an extreme example of ambiguous messages, I see a guy occasionally in group settings, but he doesn’t approach me to talk and I naturally gravitate to my closer friends. But he repeatedly sends me random messages on Facebook. They rarely seem to require a response, so one day he sent me a message and I didn’t reply. I saw him a few days later, message forgotten; we exchanged pleasantries and I went my own way. Then he sent me a message apologizing for his previous comment and expressing concern that he had offended me. What am I supposed to do with that? He’s giving me attention, but in an oblique way that leaves me confused about whether he wants to be friends, is attracted to me, both, or neither. So I leave him alone.

    As Haley would say, don’t be this guy ;)

  91. OffTheCuff December 16, 2011 at 7:45 pm #

    Hana, any attention at all means he likes you. I would say you know this in your bones. It’s less like you not “being sure”, but more likely turned off by his weakness which easily can be waved off as being unclear.

    But I agree, don’t be this guy. Men have to make their intentions clear. But it’s not for clarity — as women usually know what we’re thinking, before we even do. It’s to show decisiveness.

  92. imnobody December 17, 2011 at 1:30 am #

    I think that’s a sad way to think.

    But it’s the reality. The problem with America is that people prefer to live a beautiful lie than the ugly truth. You see this once and again and not only in relationships. Then, people are amazed why their lives turned out so badly when they are good people.

    We live in a Fallen World and life is not a fairy tale.

  93. Jennifer December 17, 2011 at 2:30 pm #

    “as women usually know what we’re thinking, before we even do”

    Wow, that’s a thought all right.

    I agree Nobody, it is a fallen world and bad things happen to good people. But I’ve seen marriages with overweight people work just fine.

  94. deti December 17, 2011 at 3:42 pm #

    I would also venture that she is fully prepared to shut him down with an LJBF if he expresses anything more than “friendship” Interest in her. She also wants him to stay around, so she can continue using him for validation, emotional tampon functions, and attention.

    You know, I almost have to back away from this a little. Riddle me this, Will S., OTC and other knowledgeable red pillers: Think back. How many girls who told you LJBF were you ACTUALLY friends with? Or even acquaintances? Or did you even talk with again? I never again saw or talked to most girls who LJBF’d me. Of those few I did talk with again, it was only perfunctory.

    And think about this: How many of you have contacted old BFs or GF thru social media? Every time I’ve looked up someone it was due to sheer curiosity and, yes, a twinge of sexual interest. And I’ve been contacted a few times, again out of sexual interest and curiosity in me. Come on, let’s be real. There are only two reasons you contact an old flame: sexual interest and curiosity. Though I do have to say that the twinge of sexual interest waned very quickly after perusing their social media pages.

  95. OffTheCuff December 17, 2011 at 4:31 pm #

    Deti, I’ve had one verifiable LJBF when I was about 19. She was in a social group of mine that hang out during the summer. We spent a lot of time together in the group, but I never did with her one on one. She flirted with me for a few months (while dating a friend of mine), but then went cold, so I was too late. I did the “beta confessional” thing when I sensed her pulling out of the social group. I didn’t see her often after that, since she was pulling out.

  96. Will S. December 17, 2011 at 5:37 pm #

    @ deti: In some cases without the words LJBF even needing to be uttered, I was nevertheless LJBFed many times in my younger years – high school through university and beyond, and in most cases, the girls weren’t really friends to me; they treated me more like an acquaintance; and the ‘friendships’ didn’t last long in most cases. In some cases, they were friends, but it was still fairly one-sided in some regards; I was a shoulder for them to cry on or a sounding board to whine and bitch at about the guys they would date, etc., and even though they were decent enough friends in some ways – one girl invited me along to her church’s social events – ski trips, volleyball games, and when I did profession of faith, threw me a party, so she was a decent enough friend, in some regards. But she still got far more benefit out of our friendship than I did, and after several years of putting up with her using me, she ended up being the last single young female friend I allowed to ‘friend-zone’ me; I eventually ended our friendship rather coldly, abruptly, and calculatedly, I’m pleased to say. And now no woman will ever LJBF / friend-zone me, ever again…

  97. brada December 17, 2011 at 6:27 pm #

    How many of you women would want a man with many (or even any) “close female friends” after you were married to him? I think few would, for the obvious reasons. Yet many still deny that here.

  98. Shalita January 5, 2012 at 5:27 am #

    This video is hilarious and awesome! I think guys and girls can’t be close friends but they can be friends. I have a few guy friends and i know they’re not attracted to me because they’re all either in a relationship, engaged or married. And the only time I’ve ever been asked out was when my last boyfriend told me he was interested in me.
    Also after reading some of the comments, I was surprised to find that guys don’t generally LJBF a girl. My ex boyfriend, after breaking up with me, said he wanted to still be friends. Which would mean he’d get all the emotional benefits of having a girlfriend without actually committing to one. It was a kind of bizarre Christian friends-with-benefits situation. After I wised up, I told him I didn’t want to have anything to do with him! :D

  99. Rodney January 9, 2012 at 12:07 am #

    I’m a Christian and don’t believe in sleeping around or in evolution. Nonetheless I do believe that an evolutionary psychology approach can explain why women can be friends with men but men can’t be friends with women (because we are still part flesh i.e. animal even if we have a spirit; and natural selection can still send your descendants extinct or multiply them, even if it can’t create fundamentally new creatures).

    The reason women can be friends with men but not visa versa stems from the fact that if a man has sex with a different women every night for 9 months he can potentially leave behind 273 descendants every 9 months (as immoral as that may be). Whereas if a women sleeps with a different man every night for 9 months she will have but one child every 9 months. Now not all those 273 couplings of the guy will be with women in a state of fertileness and the woman may have twins or even triplets (but rarely to different fathers) but you get the idea.

    Thus a man whose genes wire him to want to sleep with all the women he can, including his female friends, will tend to have a lot of descendants if he can and does act on that impulse, thus passing those horny genes on. Refraining from impregnating someone because she’s your friend and it might ruin the friendship has no reproductive advantage (as in number of descendants left behind) for the man. Sure the guy may impregnate some (in fact many) women whose children will die without him sticking around to help provide for them (in the past not so much today) but that is no loss to him as the union only cost him some sperm (easy to replace calorie/protein lost making sperm) and 24 hrs of lost time. (Its a loss to his soul of course, a spiritual loss, but I am talking about this from a scientific/reproductive point of view).

    Not so for the women. If some scientific studies are to be believed every child that a woman has shortens her life by 1.5 years. The 9 months of pregnancy steal calcium from her bones and a ton of extra protein/calories is required to make and sustain the baby for nine months plus breast feeding. Her hormones and the fact the baby came from out of her body means she will feel obligated to continue to feed and care for the child for another decade or two as well.

    What this adds up to is that the woman who only gets one shot at pregnancy every nine months and puts a lot of resources into that pregnancy will want to make the pregnancy really count by producing a high quality child whose really worth the cost.

    This means there is no payoff for the woman to sleep with a large mixture of high and low quality (alpha/beta etc) men because the beta she sleeps with may displace the sperm of the alpha. The woman can only get pregnant to one man at a time so she must ensure that it is only the alpha she sleeps with. Men on the other hand don’t have to choose (if they are immoral) they can sleep with both the alpha and beta women (the 10 and the 5) and make both pregnant. That way he gets the high survival probability healthy 10 child and even though he’s not caring for it the 5 child may struggle through and survive to adulthood and spread his genes too (no loss to the man if the 5’s child doesn’t survive – from a carnal/fleshy/animal point of view. Morally/Spiritually it is a great tragedy of course).

    How this works out in practice is that men are wired to want to make love to anything that moves if it has tits and/or an arse while women are wired to only want to make love to an alpha (i.e. women are hypergamous). Therefor a woman can genuinely see a guy as a great person that she genuinely likes and wants to be friends with, without also seeing the guy as alpha enough to be contributing to half the genetic code of her offspring. The guy will not be so fussy (for afore mentioned reasons) and will think humping his female friend is a great idea unless she’s repulsively ugly.

    Off topic but the above is also the reason why most women even 5s and lower (at least before menopause) will always find sex with someone if they want it (if they are immoral enough), they just have to make their desire known. While plenty of beta men desperate for sex (and immoral enough to have no problem with sex outside of marriage) will be as virginal as a seriously committed single fundamentalist Christian. Its also the reason why women who are 5s can still hook up with alpha men (e.g. Arnie and his cleaner) but rarely the reverse (apart from $1000 hoes and beta men good at saving perhaps).

    (By the way I think there is more to attracting women than just being alpha but as a general summary “beauty attracts men, power attracts women” works).

    PS: So happy to find a blog that follows game (and men’s rights?) but is Christian.

  100. Jennifer January 9, 2012 at 7:34 am #

    What people call game is typically over-rated, Rodney. I think you might be over-straining your analysis, but get the general point, which is simply that men are very attracted to women and think of sex more often. I hope you’re wrong about women losing time in their lives due to pregnancy.

  101. Rodney January 9, 2012 at 5:22 pm #

    “What people call game is typically over-rated, Rodney. ”

    I actually agree with that. Though I have read a lot on it and it is interesting to follow. And I think there is a lot of truth in it. The full time game artists (PUA whatever) are a bit depressing though wouldn’t want to be one of them. But they can write some interesting articles. (I am extremely anti-feminist though but have a problem with a lot of MRA blogs – people turning into what they hate).

    “I think you might be over-straining your analysis”

    Couldn’t disagree more. In what way do you think my analysis is over strained? Perhaps you mean I’m “harping the point” in which case I would agree. Its a simple point but I don’t want anyone to miss it so I am spelling it out in detail.

    “but get the general point, which is simply that men are very attracted to women and think of sex more often. ”

    Except that that is not my general point. Which kind of depresses me that you miss the point here after I do all that writing. The point I was making was that the differences in dating dynamics between men and women stem from the fact that a women can only get pregnant once every nine months thus meaning she has to be choosy who she sleeps with while a guy can make everyone pregnant so doesn’t have to be choosy. This results in men being more polygamous and women being more hypergamous. (If you’d written this paragraph as a summary of my general point I wouldn’t of complained).

  102. Jennifer January 9, 2012 at 6:00 pm #

    Yes, I agree that the difference biologically between men and women results in what you described; just seemed a lot to fit into the friend topic.

  103. On the Bus August 15, 2012 at 7:14 pm #

    ! Timothy 5:2
    5 Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers, 2 older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, in all purity.

    So I learned awhile back from a pastor talking to many college students on a university campus how we are suppose to treat each other like brothers and sisters…

    so yeah you guys CAN treat their younger women believers in Christ as sisters in all purity ( with God ‘s grace Romans 6:14, Romans 5:21..)

  104. On the Bus August 15, 2012 at 7:19 pm #

    1 Timothy 5:1-2 ESV

    Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers, 2 older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, in all purity.

    the verse is saying encourage …younger women as sisters in all purity.

    so not exactly “treat” but I guess it similar… (encourage)

  105. Red March 16, 2014 at 1:10 pm #

    Okay, so here’s how it works:

    SIngle men and women generally can’t be friends without an amount of attraction. BUT… who cares? If it’s a problem, then visit only every so often. It’s a harsh world, and every friend you have is a bonus. It’s also good to have someone of the opposite-sex to vouch for your character. If the initial spark isn’t there, that’s generally the reason for the friend-zone (for both parties). Yet, it’s always good to have a backup-plan. I think this is the realistic and adult approach, not avoidance.

    Women value guy friends in the same way that they value female friends, with the exception that we develop a little crush on our guy friends after a while. However, the women polled were asked, not if their guy friends would “date” them if given the opportunity, but if they would “hit it”. The women said “yes”: the reason for this, is not that these women are necessarily mocking temptresses, but that their non-Christian friends would probably “hit” a lot of different women, and of course, these lucky women got to be on the list.

    It’s playing with fire, to a degree, but not if you can do it right. A man who is open to female friends without benefits will always be at an advantage: for instance, he will have more female options through his friend. There is also the humorous effect of some women becoming attracted to men that they see with another woman, and vice-versa. Human jealousy can make for a good wingman.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. Let’s hear it from the boys | Datingwise - December 14, 2011

    […] at Haley’s Halo, I left a comment about men “messing up” friendships with women to pursue them instead. […]

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