Theory on the men bad, women good attitude in churches.

11 Aug

Hi, guys.  Sorry I’ve been sort of out of commission.  I got sucked into the Olympics last week with all the gymnastics and swimming, and then this week has been so incredibly hot that the desire to do much of anything has been zapped from me.  Also, church softball season is underway again, so that takes away another night of my week.

I recently completed the spring/summer “semester” of small groups at my church (the semesters run for ten weeks at a time so you’re not making an indefinite commitment, which is nice), and one of the women attending our group this time around is in the process of divorcing her husband.  In this case, it’s on account of her husband taking up with another woman and walking away from the family.  (Yes, he actually told her that he feels more alive than he ever has and that adultery has been the best thing that ever happened to him.  Okay, maybe not those exact words.  But this is a pretty accurate paraphrase.)  She and her husband are currently selling their house – she has found a smaller one to move into, and their teenage daughters basically hate their dad now and are incredibly bitter that they have to move out of their house.

As far as I can tell, the dad has left the church, which got me thinking that, in addition to the influence of feminism on the church, the fact that it’s typically the women who stick around after a divorce probably abets the image that it’s the men who are always the ones doing wrong.  At its root, it’s selection bias.

Who sticks around after the divorce, because she needs the support more than ever?  The woman.

Who comes to the church after the divorce, because she needs the support more than ever?  The woman.

Who’s more likely to drop out of the church and more likely not to attend in the first place?  The man.

So a pastor, typically a guy who felt “the call” from a fairly young age, and who married his wife at a young age, and hasn’t been in the SMP for years, is going to look at his situation and project.  Well, of COURSE it’s the men who are at fault!  Look at all these women who are seeking the Lord when something bad has happened!  Shame on those men who are abandoning their duties to their wives and children!  It’s just a natural response, and then you add in the feminism, and the guy practically has no chance.

If you’ve been reading manosphere blogs pretty heavily for a while, you might have forgotten that sometimes women DO get blindsided and left by their husbands.  It’s not always, “oh, she must have been a crappy wife and deserved it” or “she really was a horrible woman and deserved it” or “well, DUH, she got FATTTTTTT!”  In the game of no-fault divorce, women can be the losers, too.

My last thought for this post is that divorce SUCKS.  If you have kids, really think twice about pitching your spouse.  You can permanently damage your relationship with your kids, and not just that, but their entire ability to trust, love, and develop healthy relationships with others.  Your legacy rests with your kids, so make sure it’s a good one.


15 Responses to “Theory on the men bad, women good attitude in churches.”

  1. Vicomte August 11, 2012 at 9:04 pm #

    Notify the PUAs that two young, relatively naive low n-count prospects have just entered the market.

    They’ve got daddy issues and something to prove! First fifty come first fifty served!

  2. namae nanka August 11, 2012 at 9:37 pm #

    “In the game of no-fault divorce, women can be the losers, too.”

    The Manosphere continually talks of women aging like milk?

    It’s things like this:

    or consider the Massachusetts alimony law which got reformed because some women started getting the heat.

    “the fact that it’s typically the women who stick around after a divorce probably abets the image that it’s the men who are always the ones doing wrong. ”

    sure you haven’t mixed up cause and effect?

  3. Simon Grey August 11, 2012 at 9:37 pm #

    @Haley- It’s weird that you mention this story, because the only experience I’ve ever had with church folk getting divorce was a couple of years ago when a woman divorced her husband for cheating on her for a second time. He was pretty much at fault for the marriage falling apart, so it was hard to sympathize with him when everything hit the fan. However, he did have a history of fornication prior to marriage. Also, the woman committed fornication with him prior to marriage, so there was that. Thus, it was hard for me to sympathize with her because there were plenty of signs prior to her marriage that he may not be the most committed guy. But, like you say, marital failures are not always primarily the fault of women, common manosphere lamentations notwithstanding.

  4. The Man Who Was . . . August 12, 2012 at 12:01 am #

    1. Women are more valuable biologically (eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap etc.) so everyone is biased in favour of taking care of them.
    2. Women are, on average, just more lovable than men, at least on a superficial level. They score higher on the major personality trait of agreeableness, so we are disposed to think better of them.

    But selection effect may have some influence too.

  5. Cane Caldo August 12, 2012 at 12:04 pm #

    There’s not enough information from that story to form an appropriate sense of sympathy.

    Men mostly leave churches upon divorce because shame overwhelms them. They can’t bear the thought of it enduring publicly, and will go so far as to renounce their faith rather than face it. We’ve been taught that what we do matters, not who we are.

    Women tend to expect to be loved regardless of what they do, because of who they are.

  6. Sis August 12, 2012 at 1:31 pm #

    Thank you, it gets depressing hearing how much women suck all the time. I love softball too.

  7. Cane Caldo August 12, 2012 at 7:52 pm #

    Thank you, it gets depressing hearing how much women suck all the time. I love softball too.

    It’s disturbing and telling that you think the cure for women-suck stories is a men-suck story.

  8. Aunt Haley August 12, 2012 at 10:14 pm #

    Cane Caldo–
    It’s disturbing and telling that you would jump to the least generous conclusion about a commenter’s comment.

  9. ballista74 August 12, 2012 at 11:40 pm #

    Insufficient information to form a proper opinion. Namely his side of the story.

    Who sticks around after the divorce and goes to the church because she needs the support more than ever? Who’s more likely to get women and feminized men who won’t ask questions and dig for answers with the husband to try to get the straight story, and accept her at her word, be it as one-sided a story as it might be? The woman.

    This is the fruit of feminism. No one digs and gets the straight story of what went on. No one even asks the husband what happened in the situation. The woman’s word is accepted as gospel truth without a second thought as to whether she lied about anything. Even if she did the worst possible things, make up a sympathetic story and she’s in. She’s the good guy and the husband’s the villain.

    Who’s more likely to drop out of the church and more likely not to attend in the first place? Who’s more likely to get the villain treatment no matter what happened to him? Who wouldn’t be believed and supported even if the wife told him she pulled a train, all the participants fessed up, and there was a video of it out there? The man. How dare he drive her off into the arms of another man! Or even men! She can just lie about it to everyone in the church and everything is alright for her.

    And no even reading manosphere blogs all the time doesn’t make me forget that husbands can be to blame for sin too. In fact, I’m reminded of that constantly. ALL.THE.TIME. For all the media out there, manosphere blogs are still 0.00001% of all the chatter out there, and the rest of it is misandric. All I hear once I go outside the manosphere is: Men are evil and the cause of everything wrong in the world. Men are sexual deviants that can’t keep their minds and thoughts off of it. Men are buffoons that screw everything up they touch. Men better bow down to the wife and be gracious and thankful that she married you because she doesn’t even deserve one moment of toleration of your vile self, much less being married to you.

    In fact, men don’t get support within churches, more so churches are exceedingly hostile against men, married or not. Period. And men know it. They won’t get a fair shake from anyone, much less any form of support, no matter what happens, once the woman has had a chance to spin her story to tell whatever version she sees fit. He knows that her words will be taken as gospel truth no matter what. So he leaves.

    If you need perspective read the following:

  10. Peter T August 13, 2012 at 6:18 pm #

    After divorce or separation, is it the woman who sticks around and feels more religious, or is the one who has been left? With my limited sample size of experiences, it seems the latter to me.


  11. Cane Caldo August 15, 2012 at 6:58 pm #

    I just saw this comment, otherwise I would have come back to seek clarity sooner.

    Maybe it was the flippant softball remark juxtaposed with the seriousness of the implied charge against the husband. As ballista74 and I both noted, there’s not enough information here to discern whether the woman in the post was actually on the more innocent side of the divorce. Considering you describe her as the loser, then we must conclude that he was the perpetrator–except there’s not enough evidence for that. From what’s been presented, you and Sis seem to agree that it’s the man who puts the “suck” in this particular version of “divorce SUCKS”.

    Sis thanks you for pointing out that “men suck”, and this is better than a story about how “women suck”. All of this without enough evidence to actually say that this is a bona fide “men suck” story.

    Which part of that did I get wrong? Because that will determine whether I was not generous enough, or not.

  12. Natalie August 16, 2012 at 9:13 am #

    Ok, so you guys read a post about how the Church (due to feminism and lower male participation) can be skewed against men and decide that this is “men suck” story? Really? Based on what? Her observation that the church should be careful how it views men? Or perhaps you’re referring to the gentle reminder that what you men have experienced can happen to women as well?

  13. ornamentalwomanhood August 22, 2012 at 8:52 pm #

    I understand cheating exists. I also wonder how well this woman followed scriptural principles on conjugal rights.

  14. Heather September 6, 2012 at 10:43 am #

    Hi Haley. I followed a link from Elspeth’s place.

    It is interesting how, depending on who’s telling the story, the bulk of divorce guilt will fall on the head of the wife or husband. And, depending on a listener’s inclination, sympathetic rallying on one side or another can be based on nothing more than “I hate men” or “Women are inherently evil” types of prejudice. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about God’s view of the human tendency to use unequal measures, particularly in the process of passing judgment on others.a

    Good reminder to look outside of “self” before deciding divorce is the only acceptable option. Whether they are just or sinful, our individual choices do affect others; and that is especially true for our children.


  1. Linkage | Breathing Grace - September 6, 2012

    […] Haley’s Halo: Theory on the men bad, women good attitude in churches. […]

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