When guys advise girls to put out to prove marital worthiness, they really mean “only put out for betas.”

20 Sep

Obviously, as a Christian, I believe that sex should be reserved only for marriage, but since I operate in a corner of the internet that isn’t exclusively Christian, I figure it’s worth talking about why premarital sex is such a bad deal for women overall.  This is not to say that some women haven’t put out and ended up in good marriages anyway.  It’s more that if you look at society as a whole, it’s a bad thing.  It’s worth pointing out that the manosphere seems mainly geared toward upper-middle and upper-class (white beta) men (if not in raw income, then at least in education/social class/taste), and so a lot of advice is filtered through those lenses.  Many social pathologies have not (yet?) come to the upper echelons of society because of money and a stronger adherence to traditional social strictures.

The basic gist that I see all over the place is that women should have a low partner count but should put out for guys they’re serious about who could also be husband material.  The problem is that the same guys who advocate this strategy also believe that women have no control over their hamsters and will be ~forever ruined~ for marriage by sex with an alpha.  So basically, they are advising women to be crazed sex freaks only with betas.  This sexual performance will prove to the man that the woman is a good bet for marriage.  So somehow women are tasked with finding betas to treat like alphas within, like, three tries, lest they be branded for eternity as ruined slags who will cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat and make you raise someone else’s secret baby.  Also, they need to divine the man’s fitness for marriage within 3-5 dates – so within 12-20 hours of time spent with the guy, approximately.  This is because no self-respecting man is going to waste time on a chick who won’t put out.

This “strategy” seems like no strategy at all.  Men are banking on the premise that the two guys who came before him were horrible at sex, but she had significant relationships with them anyway (because only big ol’ whores would have one night stands or flings).  Women are banking on the much riskier premise that she will find someone who is willing to commit to her in marriage within three tries that she can also be a crazed sex freak for for the rest of her life.  It’s like playing Super Mario Bros. with three lives and you have to get to the flagpole before you die three times or time runs out.  Also, I feel like there is a presumption that the girl is always the one ending relationships, because what guy would dump a “nice” girl who is a crazed sex freak only with him, right?  But girls get dumped all the time, and not just by alphas.  Every girl, if it hasn’t happened to herself, knows girls who in good faith entered into dating relationships that ended in getting dumped for whatever reason.  The guy just stopped being attracted, the guy decided he wanted something else, the guy decided it wasn’t working out – even if the guy had also declared his love, talked about a future/marriage, often went the extra mile.

So what does a girl gain from a failed sexual relationship?  Nothing.  The guy gets sex and an ego/status boost.  The girl just loses time and gains a notch that will work against her chances of getting another marriageable guy, because guys don’t care so much about the quality of the relationship, they just care about the number.  She can also then expect the next guy to expect her to do everything sexually for him that she did for the previous guy, unless she lands a suuuper beta with a forgiving heart.  But landing a suuuper beta with a forgiving heart makes it even harder for the girl to be a crazed sex freak for him, so it’s just a downward spiral with no end.

It’s just a very bad strategy.

Recently conservative comedian/commentator Steven Crowder got married, and both he and his bride were virgins on the wedding day.  He recounted in a subsequent op-ed that he thought their wedding night was “perfect” and “nothing short of amazing. ”  Whatever kind of sex they had that night was surely not perfect or amazing by experienced sexing standards, but by coming to marriage as virgins, Crowder and his wife got to have a wedding night that they could consider perfect and amazing and that will remain a cherished memory.  More interestingly, the next day he and his wife were eating breakfast and they overheard another newlywed discussing her new marriage and opining that “nothing’s really changed.”  (Also, the groom had gotten so wasted at the reception that he wasn’t even eating breakfast with his new wife.)  Presumably this woman had cohabited with her now-husband and had used up all the perfect and amazing sex of new love long before her wedding night.  It made me sad to read about it.  At the one table were Crowder and his bride giddy with the freshness of lives newly entwined, while at the other table were people who had been there, done that so long ago that the marriage was hardly registering with them.  And people wonder where romance went and why marriages don’t last…but darn it, they got the receipts from premarital sex!

P.S.  Only three people have responded to the podcast idea.  Please weigh in if you would like to see this project move forward.

Advertisements

41 Responses to “When guys advise girls to put out to prove marital worthiness, they really mean “only put out for betas.””

  1. 3rd Millenium Men September 20, 2012 at 1:30 am #

    I’m completely in favour of people remaining virgins until they get married, for reasons outlined here: http://3rdmilleniummen.wordpress.com/2012/08/26/manosphere-virginity/

    However, I was having an interesting chat with a Christian pastor who said that there’s a real disconnect between people remaining sex-free and people now getting married around 30. He said getting married in your early 20’s often isn’t practical in this day and age, but people also have high sex drives. He thinks the churches haven’t yet figured out how to best address this.

    Anyway that’s besides the point. I thought Crowder’s article was great. With that said, I have an uncontrollable love for women!

    As for the dating women only 3 times and moving on if they haven’t put out… That’s Roissy/Roosh, which is spot on if you’re focused on clocking up numerous girls. But guys will stay with a girl and take her more seriously BECAUSE she won’t put out. Don’t put out girls, and you’ll find it a million times easier to nail down a good man.

  2. modernguy September 20, 2012 at 2:06 am #

    Risk and knowledge are inversely related. If you’re scared to put out for a guy because you’re afraid he might dump you later, you don’t know him well enough. Women are gatekeepers to sex, it’s your responsibility to minimize the risk before you give it up. That basically means judging a man’s character, which obviously these days is something many women don’t even seem to realize exists (tattoos and muscles are suprisingly often not a good indicator of character, despite what women seem to think). It’s not easy, but no one ever said life was going to be, so suck it up, and just be thankful you never bought into the feminist propaganda that being a slut is ok.

  3. LongLostFriend September 20, 2012 at 4:52 am #

    Yeah, the “dump her if she doesn’t give it up soon” contingency are not your pro-marriage manosphere bloggers. Athol supports pre-marital sex as an “assurance” of sexual compatibility, but he doesn’t encourage since women to give it up quickly and easily.

    As a woman, being a virgin will rule you out among a lot of guys who are not willing to wait very long. That’s (a) life and (b) a good thing for a Christian woman.

    And I concur with 3rd Mil up there. It is unrealistic to expect most people to delay sex until late twenties and early thirties. If we are going to promote abstinence until marriage, we need to promote young marriage as well, giving girls and boys the proper training to wisely select a mate.

    It is better to marry than to burn, after all.

  4. Austin September 20, 2012 at 5:23 am #

    When I hear of these women who “gain another notch” that could turn off men in the future it always makes me wonder how these future men would ever know how many men their women have been with. I’ve asked women the “how many” question but I have no way of knowing if what they are telling me is the truth. The woman is the gatekeeper of that information. If you wish, keep it to yourself or lie.

  5. deti September 20, 2012 at 5:50 am #

    Haley:

    You’ve done a great job of pointing up the dilemma women find themselves in.

    But the subtext of your post is this: betas are sexually unattractive anyway, so women will never give betas the sex they want. If she does give in and sex up a beta, she loses, because she upped her notch count with a man she’ll never really want for marriage or much else.

    So we’re really back to “Alphas are hawt! Betas, be more attractive! Why should women want any of you betas for anything anyway?”

    Welcome to what feminism hath wrought.

  6. deti September 20, 2012 at 6:00 am #

    3rd Millennium:

    “He said getting married in your early 20′s often isn’t practical in this day and age, but people also have high sex drives. He thinks the churches haven’t yet figured out how to best address this.”

    Funny. The churches and society addressed this easily for about 2000 years, up until around 1960.

    The answer was: Find a partner early on whom you are sexually attracted to, whom you love and have some compatibility with, and marry him/her, and stay together for life, and do it before you’re 25.

    And most of those men were what we would call “betas” today. They worked a job and earned a middling paycheck, and supported a wife and kids on it. These men did what they were told: prepared themselves for marriage by getting educations and jobs, earning money so they could support wives and children.

    But most Christian women can’t be bothered with traditional Biblical mores or preparing themselves for Christian marriage.

    This isn’t good enough for today’s modern Evangelical American Princess who’s earning her own money, and has her own car and apartment. She needs the hawwwwt Christian alpha, the worship leader or the assistant pastor or the devout lawyer (read: RICH lawyer) in her adult Sunday School class. Nothing less will do. And she’ll put out for them, despite warnings from well meaning bloggers like Haley. “I don’t give a damn if it will ruin me! I don’t give a damn if I’m an alpha widow! He’s HAAAAWWWWT and I must have him NOW!”

  7. Athol Kay September 20, 2012 at 6:05 am #

    if you don’t meet his parents, don’t put out.

  8. deti September 20, 2012 at 6:15 am #

    It also occurs to me that at least half of this problem is women’s complete lack of realism about their marriage market values, and about the type and quality of men who will marry them.

    Not the men who will find them sexually attractive. The men who will MARRY them.

    Perhaps if women got realistic about their own marriage market values, took a good, long, brutally honest look at their own MMVs, focused on men in that range, and focused on finding a good man early instead of traveling to Europe and getting educations and jobs and BMWs and Lancome makeup kits and Louis Vuitton handbags, much of the problem Haley writes of would be resolved.

    And by the same token, since I’m an equal opportunity critic, perhaps if men who wanted to marry got off their tookuses and made a little something of themselves and stopped pedestalizing bitches and other undeserving women and stopped buying them $100 dinners for first dates and stopped investing in them so early and either ignored or laughed at womens’ various and sundry foibles and stupidities and stopped putting up with their BS and told them to knock it the hell off and generally blew out and broke up with women who utterly deserve it, some of the problem Haley writes of would be resolved.

  9. RG3 September 20, 2012 at 7:14 am #

    Totally right on the age of marriage disconnect for the church. Kids (humans under age 30) don’t listen to the preachers pleas about sex and marriage. The one size fits all approach to just get married quick doesn’t work, especially in the big coastal cities among professionals.

    Best solution: attend a southern private university, go to a mega-church college group, learn how to play guitar, attract a lovely, feminine virgin bride with long curly hair and a lil too much make-up, work a boring white collar job in your college town for two years, hit grad school, then head for the big city to get paid like a boss.

    Learn a little game from a few Xn game sites so you keep the bliss flowing through the “grinding years.”

  10. RG3 September 20, 2012 at 7:18 am #

    LMAO – first date expectation inflation!

    My intern, who can literally not afford gas money for his SUV, took a girl on a first date two nts ago, dropped $200!!! Bro came to work the next day pretty sure he’s gonna wife it. Can’t afford to, ATM, so he asked if I would hurry up and hire him.

    Hold on, player. Get coffee next time, maybe let the gal prove she has more going than the hotness and the previous 20 minute convo at the pick up bar??

    And she ordered a glass of wine for him. Reverse that polarity or get ready to be a stool the rest of your married life.

  11. Drama September 20, 2012 at 9:07 am #

    It is indeed a strange phenomenom, but not one that I personally allow myself to affect myself.

    Any suspect characteristics in a girls background will limit how serious I am towards her.
    If she’s demonstrates to be an easy lay for sex’s sake.
    If she has financial problems(excess debt), whether from her ex “screwing her over” or school.
    If she’s outwardly concerned(cares most about her looks)whether trashy with a super fake tan or a only the best designer digs.
    And of course if she’s simply a Class A bitch with a sense of entitlement the size of Rhode Island.

    All these things drive me away from a woman. Doesn’t mean I won’t try to get something out of the mix but I’ll know pretty early on what a girl is worth to me.

    I’ve had this thought recently that the best way to avoid all the contemporary problems with women(if a man wants one to settle down with) is to find an 18 or 19 year old and simply mold them into what you want before the college scene does it for you.
    Problem then of course is that you have to deal with a teenager and if you’re like me you hate teenagers.

  12. deti September 20, 2012 at 10:14 am #

    Let’s look at men’s dilemmas.

    The basic gist I see all over the place is that the man has to walk a tightrope of being exactly the right mix of alpha and beta. Too much alpha, he’s an inveterate jerk and borderline sociopath who is unfit for marriage. Too much beta, he’s a useless milquetoast and unattractive simp who is unfit for marriage. The problem is that the same girls who advocate this strategy don’t really understand themselves at all, don’t understand what they want in a man, don’t understand their own attraction triggers, and therefore are ruled by their hamsters.

    So basically they are advising men to dance to a woman’s tune. He has to be whatever she wants him to be, when she wants it, or she will lose attraction. And hey, she can’t help it if she loses attraction! “This is just the way I am! Deal with it!” He has to bring the alpha dominance when she wants and the sensitive beta when she wants. They have to get married when she wants. If he is not exactly what she wants all the time, she will lose attraction, or not feel attraction, and then confuse those feelings or changes in her feelings with essential incompatibility. Add to this the complete and utter cluelessness of modern Christianity to the mix, and what you have is a situation in which men are supposed to be absolutely perfect all the time and never, ever have any bad days. They are not to talk about their negative feelings to their wives, ever ever ever, lest they be branded as hopeless betas who will supplicate and pedestalize. This is because no self-respecting woman will sex up a beta.

  13. The Man Who Was . . . September 20, 2012 at 3:33 pm #

    However, I was having an interesting chat with a Christian pastor who said that there’s a real disconnect between people remaining sex-free and people now getting married around 30. He said getting married in your early 20′s often isn’t practical in this day and age, but people also have high sex drives. He thinks the churches haven’t yet figured out how to best address this.

    No fucking shit.

  14. The Man Who Was . . . September 20, 2012 at 3:39 pm #

    Deti:

    But women can support themselves now and they don’t need those betas to support them anymore. So, they stay single and keep hoping Mr. Alpha will take an interest in them, at least until they realize they’re about to hit the wall and need to find a man quick.

  15. The Man Who Was . . . September 20, 2012 at 3:43 pm #

    Too much alpha, he’s an inveterate jerk and borderline sociopath who is unfit for marriage.

    Being an alpha jerk won’t make you any less marriageable in general. Lots and lots of girls will line up to marry the worst sorts of men. It might make you less marriageable among genuinely good Christian girls and for those few genuinely good secular girls left.

  16. Strong Man September 20, 2012 at 4:03 pm #

    This issue is similar to discussions of Modesty. As a highly religious and committed Christian, a woman who would offer sex before marriage would drastically lose attraction for me as a marriage prospect. Guys who say she has to put out to show she’s good in bed disgust me.

    And–the quality of premarital sex isn’t a good gage of post-marital sex with a woman anyway.

    I’ve written about how bums and sluts find each other, and gentlemen and ladies find each other as well–when it comes to the modesty question.

    http://goodstrongmen.blogspot.com/2012/08/modesty-whos-fault.html

    Also–3rd MM’s first comment is valid–people who want to stay virgins really should marry younger. Among mormons, for example, marriage age is trending upward, but it’s still generally in the low to mid-20s.

  17. Frank Wunder September 20, 2012 at 7:14 pm #

    Aunt Haley this one of your best posts.

  18. ornamentalwomanhood September 20, 2012 at 8:56 pm #

    Austin – EXACTLY. Some women lie. Men do as well. I have seen this often with the ‘raised in the church’ types: the ones who look like a ‘good Christian women or men’ marrying women or men, toting themselves as ‘virgins’ when they are technical virgins at best, with a whole roster of non-intercourse sexual partners in their back pocket, judging others who are not technical virgins, but whose total ‘numbers’ could be counted out loud by a two year old child.

    BOTH are condemnable and we ought look to ourselves alone and pray for God’s mercy. Otherwise, we become self righteous in our relative “morality” – on either end, and that often leads to a horrible fall. We forget that we are not making ourselves worthy of God’s grace but it is His free gift to us, that we might now die to Sin and live free, free to be obedient by the power of His spirit.

  19. Samson J. September 21, 2012 at 1:02 pm #

    Weigh in: is it beta for a guy to use a wedding photo for his Facebook or Twitter icon?

    That’s a really good question. On the one hand, there’s the principle that “if you have to ask, it probably is.” On the other hand, I don’t think it necessarily is, if the photo displays you being sufficiently alpha (in terms of his and her body language, etc.), and your Facebook behaviour is otherwise pretty sparse.

  20. Samson J. September 21, 2012 at 1:07 pm #

    Recently conservative comedian/commentator Steven Crowder got married, and both he and his bride were virgins on the wedding day. He recounted in a subsequent op-ed that he thought their wedding night was “perfect” and “nothing short of amazing. “ Whatever kind of sex they had that night was surely not perfect or amazing by experienced sexing standards, but by coming to marriage as virgins, Crowder and his wife got to have a wedding night that they could consider perfect and amazing and that will remain a cherished memory.

    Same thing for my wife and I.

    More interestingly, the next day he and his wife were eating breakfast and they overheard another newlywed discussing her new marriage and opining that “nothing’s really changed.” (Also, the groom had gotten so wasted at the reception that he wasn’t even eating breakfast with his new wife.) Presumably this woman had cohabited with her now-husband and had used up all the perfect and amazing sex of new love long before her wedding night. It made me sad to read about it.

    Had the same sad experiences too.

    I offer all this not as TMI, but as assurance to whomever may be reading that adherence to God’s plan for your marriage really is worth every hardship. All of the myths (“you need to ‘try her out’ to see if you’re sexually compatible; you need to be “good in bed”) *are* myths. My wife and I could not be happier in our marriage, sexually and otherwise.

  21. whatever September 21, 2012 at 7:10 pm #

    Try to learn to be entertaining and fun to be around without playing the sex-tease card non-stop. Then you can have a guy go out with you five times and not really care that you don’t put out because YOU ARE FUN TO BE AROUND ANYWAY.

    When did the Prince fall in love with Snow White? When he saw her IN THE COFFIN BUILT BY THE DWARVES BECAUSE THEY LOVED HER SO MUCH. You obviously don’t have an old crone, I mean fairy-godmother, to hook you up with a prince, so get there through his guy friends.

  22. whatever September 21, 2012 at 8:18 pm #

    Also, being Feminine does not necessarily have to mean being sexy. Snow White was Feminine around the dwarves without being a cock-tease.

  23. Athol Kay September 22, 2012 at 6:24 am #

    Snow White and the Seven Beta Orbiters. She moved into their house and took over lol.

  24. herbie31 September 22, 2012 at 8:42 am #

    “Snow White was Feminine around the dwarves without being a cock-tease.”

    As far as we know (she wasn’t a cock tease). There may be a missing chapter.

  25. imnobody September 22, 2012 at 5:19 pm #

    A great post, Haley. A home-run.

    I guess the answer as a society is to get married virgin as my fathers did. This would fix the marriage market. Women would know their MMV because men with higher MMV wouldn’t give them attention. 6 would marry 6, 7 would marry 7.

    But we are far away in the path of depravity. I don’t see this thing coming before Western civilization collapses.

    During the 60s, when a woman gave up to the pressure from an alpha to have sex before marriage, the sexual arms race (fuelled by the Pill) began. Many women want to be attractive to the alpha so they try to outslut each other.

    The problem is that, when a woman does not put out, you don’t know if this is because she is chaste or because you are beta. You begin to wonder if she has put out with other men and now she is making you wait and taking advantage of you, for drinks or attention. Nobody wants to be a chump.

    Let me explain it with a personal story of mine:

    I once had a girlfriend I wanted to marry. I thought the world of her. We both were young so I waited seven years for the marriage to take place (in order for her to finish her studies). I was a natural-born beta then. I pedestalized women. Well, you know. Every man that reads this has been there, done that.

    Well, I respected her virginity FOR SEVEN YEARS with the promise that we were going to marry after she finished her studies (I rejected advanced of other women: these were my prime years). I loved her a lot (and quite possibly, still do) and she kept telling me that she was very traditional and wanted to keep the virginity until the wedding. She told me that virginity was very important for her and for her traditional family.

    Fast forward seven years. She finished her studies and six months before the wedding, she met a Frenchman, dumped me and lost her virginity very quickly with the Frenchman. A year later, she was happily married to the the Frenchman and living in France (and still is, to the day). This happened about six years ago.

    The thing I want to remark is that, after losing her virginity with the Frenchman, she told me that virginity was no big deal and that I was immature and childish to give some importance to something that had no importance. I feel cheated.

    Now I don’t have patience with the put-out thing. You don’t want to put out quickly? Great! Next! I don’t want to be a chump again.

    Every man here has been beta. Every man has had the experience of being told by a woman that she wanted to wait and then seeing her f**ing an alpha.

    This is why so many tension about the three dates rule. It’s not that men would not be willing to wait longer if they knew they are not being taken advantage of (for drinks or attention). Men would be willing to wait longer. But most women have abused this good disposition of men a lot of times, by making a man believe that they were interested in him when they were not, taking advantage of the dating process only to eventually LJBF him. Saying “I want to wait” when they meant “Not with you” and taking the free meals, drink and attention

  26. FuriousFerret September 22, 2012 at 6:40 pm #

    That’s heart breaking man.

    I just don’t know why you would wait 7 years!!!!!!!!!!

    That’s insane.

    I can’t believe any Christian would believe this a healthy relationship model to follow and push it on their youth.

    I think it’s because they simply don’t have the same interests at heart. They want their children to remain children until they have a bunch of money and a house. Then they should become adults.

    It almost seems like they want to reduce the sexual high, at least for guys. They can’t bang 18 year olds that the old churchians secretly want, so the Christian college aged guys will not experience them either. That would be too much pleasure and everybody knows pleasure/fun equals sin.

  27. imnobody September 23, 2012 at 7:25 am #

    I just don’t know why you would wait 7 years!!!!!!!!!!

    Easy. Because I was a L-O-S-E-R

  28. ar10308 September 24, 2012 at 4:57 am #

    Crowder was NOT a virgin before he got married. However he was celibate for 6years after becoming a Christian. He admitted this in his facebook feed when asked.

  29. OffTheCuff September 24, 2012 at 7:44 am #

    Wonderful, another born-again virgin telling everyone to do as they say, and not as they do.

  30. Juan September 26, 2012 at 11:45 am #

    I simply don’t understand this issue. Look, I got baptized, went to church, all that stuff. I’ve even read the Bible and have volunteered in church daycare.

    It is clear that people can’t wait until their late 20s or 30s to have sex (for those out there saying, “But, but I did my sister did” – look up generalization, memorize the definition and get over yourself.). It simply isn’t natural or normal, and, at least for men, will only lead to a host of problems socially, emotionally and psychologically. No other men respect a 25 year old virgin male. Do you think you can live with the knowledge that you are pitied by your peers? So don’t wait.

    Remember what Christianity is all about: the sacrifice of God’s only begotten Son to absolve the sins of the believers. Read that enough times until it sinks in. Then read it again and think about what that means for your young adult sex life.

    If Christ can forgive a murderer, don’t you think he can forgive you for premarital sex? Even in the Bible those sins are not even on the same plane. One gets you put to death, the other gets you what punishment, exactly? You’re unclean in the sight of the Lord? So? Adultery is one of the 10 Commandments, not premarital sex. It may be a sin but it ain’t a mortal one. Even the so-called Sin of Onan – read it again. God didn’t smite Onan for pulling our or jerking off, but because Onan decided he didn’t want to knock up a little lassie God specifically told him to. HUGE difference.

    So: have sex. Do it when you’re young, do it before marriage. There is plenty of time to pray for forgiveness after you’re married. It is not only unrealistic but simply foolish to save your V-card for decades. Ladies, there is a 2-1 discrepancy between women and men in your church. You aren’t likely to marry a man of God anyway, so for goodness sakes what in the world are you waiting for?

  31. samsonsjawbone September 27, 2012 at 10:29 am #

    No other men respect a 25 year old virgin male.

    Untrue. Christian men respect it, and secular friends at least respect the commitment to one’s values. There is a world of difference between being a 25-year-old virgin because you’re a nerd, and being one out of faithfulness to God. Anyway, if you care too much about what your “peers” think, you’re going to find the Christian life pretty difficult.

    Remember what Christianity is all about: the sacrifice of God’s only begotten Son to absolve the sins of the believers. Read that enough times until it sinks in. Then read it again and think about what that means for your young adult sex life.

    If Christ can forgive a murderer, don’t you think he can forgive you for premarital sex?

    Did God really say, “Thou shalt not eat of the tree…?”

    This is the attitude that damned the Pharisees. “Why care about what God actually values? You’ll be forgiven as long as you tithe your dill and cumin…”

  32. The Man Who Was . . . September 30, 2012 at 8:34 am #

    No other men respect a 25 year old virgin male.

    Samson is right. At least some people respect this.

    It is the 40 year old virgins no one respects.

  33. TheMan October 1, 2012 at 1:45 pm #

    imnobody, I’m very sorry to hear that. Was she really so audacious as to talk with you like that after breaking up?

    Juan, it’s one thing, having already sinned, to seek forgiveness. It’s quite another to justify sin now on the grounds that you can repent later. For one, that repentance is almost certainly insincere. For another, if you’re talking about repentance and sin in the first place, you’re supposed to repent for everything you’ve already done and avoid sin, no matter how large, in the future.

  34. imnobody October 1, 2012 at 3:16 pm #

    @TheMan

    Yes, she talked like that to me after breakup. In addition, she told me I was pathetic, weak and manipulative. Then, she broke all communication with me. It was a longtime ago. If only could I forget her smile…Two relationships and many affairs afterwards, nobody has been able to replace her.

    But I guess every man who has taken the red pill has a story like mine or much worse (for example, losing his kids).

  35. OffTheCuff October 3, 2012 at 6:38 pm #

    “So: have sex. Do it when you’re young, do it before marriage. There is plenty of time to pray for forgiveness after you’re married.”

    Cheap grace. It’s like the old Doritos commercial – eat all you want, we’ll make more!

  36. Aunt Haley October 4, 2012 at 8:18 pm #

    Juan–

    “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?….Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!” – Romans 6:1-2, 15

    “Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.” – James 4:17

    YOU TRIED IT.

  37. Fred Mok October 5, 2012 at 12:08 pm #

    Deti –

    1) Why is modern Christianity so clueless?

    I wonder if the average age of marriage for evangelical Christians, especially outside major metro areas, is lower than their non-evangelical peers. Are you advocating that modern Christianity loosen its standards regarding premarital sex or stop capitulating to feminism? If its the latter, I’m with you and there are movements within evangelicalism doing so.

    As an evangelical pastor in a major area, I grew up in an environment that only mildly pedestalized women (owing largely to my immigrant parents who were relatively untouched by feminism). There are large pockets in Christianity that don’t pedestalize women. And they’re not all conservative.

    2) And I still don’t understand why its impractical for Christian guys to get married in their early 20s. Is it clueless for Christians to advocate early marriage?

    In terms of your other critiques about men getting out there and women shedding their EAP entitlement baggage, I’m right there with you. Mainly to say regarding men, a little bit of alpha goes a long way. Just a little bit of yeast worked through the dough grows a man nicely.

  38. Nautilus October 20, 2012 at 9:57 pm #

    *raises hand* …25 year old male virgin here that everyone’s talking about. It’s not as glamourous nor as humiliating as one might think.

    I’m a closet nerd, but not socially inept. I’m also not a jock or a rockstar. So I guess I’m a beta who doesn’t care what anybody thinks, makes fun of people often, gets around to quite a few house parties, and sometimes goes clubbing with friends and has a drink or 3.

    Most people my age aren’t even thinking about marriage. It’s as if 30 is the line that everyone wants to get married at. That magical age barrier, nostalgic of when you’re 15 and 18 seems like unlimited freedom and power. Do I know some young girls that “appear” at least on the surface to be looking for marriage and commitment. Yes, but I have 2 friends that have been burned trying to court 2 young homeschool girls in my town. They both had about 6 month relationships, both times the girls broke it off. Were these guys beta… Well, yeah.

    I don’t want kids. Never have. I don’t get lonely, and I’m at peace alone with my thoughts or in a crowd. In fact, the only reason I think I get married at all is because of biblical morality, and the fact God wants me to. Otherwise, I’d be perfectly happy going to the grave as a manwhore. Sometimes, you have to do the right thing. Even if no one else dares to. Carry on, my straight-and-narrow Son.

  39. Dan October 29, 2012 at 8:54 am #

    Juan:

    “26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.” Hebrews 10:26-27

    Do not sin willfully. The consequences are eternal.

  40. Unpopular opinion? September 27, 2013 at 8:58 pm #

    I know that this thread is a year old, but I’m late to reading the article and I wanted to share some insights on my mind lately about this issues. I’m just going to put it out there; I’m not entirely convinced that the concept of premarital sex is sinful. WAIT! HEAR ME OUT!

    I used to be of the opinion that waiting until marriage was the right thing to do. Of course, I also assumed I would be married by the time I turned 25, but that year came and went without so much as a date. This made me start to wonder about how other, late-twenties Christians who married as virgins felt about waiting for so long to finally have sex. The responses I found were discouraging; I couldn’t believe how many Christian couples found themselves regretting their decision to jump into bed with their partner…all because of mismatched and incompatible sex drives. They held onto this idealized dream of what marriage would be like having saved themselves for that one person, and ended up in miserable situations, wishing they could have known that they weren’t physically compatible.

    Now, I will admittedly share that these couples likely didn’t have in depth communication with one another about sexual expectations and desires for marriage, which shows me that if you are choosing to wait until marriage to have sex – COMMUNICATION IS KEY!! Still, I’m not sure that denying yourself that chance to see how you ‘fit’ with your partner in an intimate way is the smartest course of action to ensure a lasting marriage. I’m not saying go out and have a bunch of one night stands, but in a serious relationship that is almost certainly headed towards marriage, I don’t see it as a negative thing.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. A Collection of My Comments… Including Responses to Posts by Professor Mentu at The University of Man | 3rd Millenium Men - October 25, 2012

    […] 1. Aunt Haley writes “when guys advise girls to put out to prove marital worthiness, they really … […]

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s