Why women like the man to pay on the first date.

21 Jan

I feel like the manosphere has mostly embraced the idea that the man should never pay for a single thing on a date until the woman has put out.  Kind of like, “you have to pay your way until you give me sex,” which is a very romantic notion.  Or, judging the woman’s character on the basis of whether she reaches for her wallet first and gives lip service to the idea of paying her way:  if she doesn’t offer to pay her way, then she’s clearly an amoral dinner whore who will probably divorce you and ruin you financially for life after she pumps out Baby #1.

This whole approach banks on the premise that the man is so sexy to the woman that she will do anything just to remain in his presence.  The problem with this approach is that very few men are actually that sexy relative to the women they are going on dates with.  Most of the time, the woman will come away with a negative impression of the man if she senses that he expects her to pay, even if the rest of the date was a success.

So, in this era of “why should the man pay when women are earning a lot of money/feminism means that women deserve JACK from men!”, why do women still want the man to pay?

My theory is that the man paying is a demonstration of the mix of alpha and beta traits that women are looking for in men.

Paying is beta because it demonstrates that the man can be a good provider.  Christian dating advice usually hammers this point home to male readers:  Men, show how godly you are by providing for your woman!  PROVIDE as God PROVIDED for you!  Answer the call of PROVISION!  …But seriously, it’s a comfort-building move that puts the woman at ease and makes her feel cared for.  It takes the pressure off her to lead.

Paying is also alpha in that it demonstrates the man’s control over the situation and his social ease.  A man who kind of glances at the check and then glances at you expectantly, like, Hey, aren’t you going to pick up your half of the tab = not confident, not cool, is more interested in testing you than getting to know you, is waiting for YOU to set the tone, is waiting on YOU to act, is waiting for YOU to initiate.  These are attitudes that make a woman shrivel on the inside.  Conversely, a man who nonchalantly grabs the bill and pays without looking to the woman for any sort of affirmation = TINGLES.  It’s a dominant move that says shows the man is a leader, he doesn’t need your “permission” to pay, he’s not deferring to your lead, it’s that he wants to pay and he’s going to and, furthermore, he CAN pay.

Because of the implications of paying, I recommend keeping first and other early dates low-cost.  That way the woman won’t feel as though the man was trying to purchase her time/physical affection if the date was only so-so, and the man won’t feel as though he blew a bunch of money on a mediocre time.  Also, if you (the man) ARE intending to pay, grab the check as soon as possible.  The longer the check lies there, the more pressure the woman feels to offer to pay since she’s no longer sure you’re the type who pays for dates or not, or if you will only offer to pay after she offers first.  Either way, it’s a tingle-killer.

Also:  what about women who insist on always paying their way?  The reason women do this is because they feel that dates are basically a sort of socially sanctioned prostitution in which the man purchases time with the woman in expectation of some degree of putting out.  In her mind, if she permits him to pay, then she may give him the ~wrong impression~.  So, in order to thwart that expectation, the woman will insist on always paying for herself, which, generally, has the side effect of being a romance-killer since she has now robbed the man of a chance to show his alpha/beta mix AND it shows that she is a believer in equalism.

If you run into a situation with a woman who seems intent on paying, don’t barter with her, just tell her “We’re on a date, so I’m paying.”  Your tone should convey that this is non-negotiable.  If she puts up resistance, tell her, “When you ask me on a date, you can pay.  Would you say that’s fair?”  If she STILL insists (but why would you be on a date with this kind of woman in the first place?), you can try a nuclear move of asking the server if you can retroactively have separate checks since your date has refused to let you pay for her.  At that point, it’s all scorched earth since there’s no way you will ever be taking her out again anyway.


33 Responses to “Why women like the man to pay on the first date.”

  1. The Man Who Was . . . January 21, 2013 at 11:21 pm #

    I feel like the manosphere has mostly embraced the idea that the man should never pay for a single thing on a date until the woman has put out.

    Sorry, straw man. The consensus seems to be that the man should pay (unless she offers), but that dates should be cheap. What kind of loser can’t afford to buy a woman a glass of wine or beer? This isn’t some stranger in a bar. Presumably she’s shown you some interest in you and you’ve established some connection. So, don’t be a cheap bastard.

    On the other hand, you should not spend a lot on her. No big dinners, no expensive concert tickets, blah, blah, blah. Comes off as either needy or pushy.

  2. The Man Who Was . . . January 21, 2013 at 11:28 pm #

    Also, there is no need for the cutesy moves at the end. By that point she either likes you or not, so making any kind of big deal over the cheque is stupid. Offer to pay, but let her pay half (or all of it, either a big IOI or kiss of death) if she wants.

  3. T and A Man January 21, 2013 at 11:41 pm #

    ” very few men are actually that sexy relative to the women they are going on dates with”

    What world do you live in? There is nothing remotely sexy about listening to the banal goings on of the Kardashian family, or having to compete with a woman’s smart phone.

    A date is successful because of the conversation a man initiates, the comfort he brings, the humour he projects and the adventure he regales in. Men are the nights entertainment, women should be paying them for their company.

    Likewise about the cheapness you’re trying to rationalise away in not paying. You now have jobs, what is that money for? Just for you to frit away on the marketing directions of Chanel, Gucci and Apple? You now have financial expectations which go beyond narcissistic whims, otherwise you’d be blocked from obtaining resources in the first place.

    But the most poignant statement you can make about the financial irresponsibility of women is ask

    “Do you ever aspire to be rich enough so your spouse does not have to work, so you can provide for them”

    Virtually every man will say yes, every woman will recoil in horror at being a provider, even though she would be one of the fortunate few in this world, regardless of gender, to be in such a position.

  4. zorroprimo January 22, 2013 at 12:47 am #

    Interesting theory, but…um…no.

    Women always want men to pay. Do you know what year it is?

  5. Ash January 22, 2013 at 5:29 am #

    I always go to a date prepared to pay.

    I do agree that if a man is more authoritative (“By no means will you pay!”), it certainly is a turn-on. The whole dancing around “who is going to pay?” thing definitely ruins the moment, especially if you had a good time. It makes you question whether or not he had fun. Also, if you (the woman) insist on paying, it could make him feel the same uncertainty. I’ll admit, if I have a not-so-good time, I’m going to pay and get the heck out of there, stat.

    This awkwardness is another casualty of feminism, I think. It was traditional for a man to not only ask you out, but also to pay. It was a sign of masculinity (and some of us think it still is). Now, I’m not sure if men are afraid of offending a woman by paying, as there are some women who would get upset. Maybe women don’t want to be expected to put out after a man pays. Maybe it’s because men are being feminized and women are being masculinized by our society and no one really knows what their role is anymore. I also understand male frustration with feminism and how it holds women up on a pedestal, as men’s quality of life decreases and they are replaced by “daddy government”.

    As for a date being successful only due to the man, I’m not so sure about that. If you’re dating girls who can’t keep their eyes off their smartphone for a few hours and who incessantly want to talk about the Kardashians, you’re dating the wrong kind of girl.

  6. haustin January 22, 2013 at 6:43 am #

    I typically buy women drinks if the date is moving in the right direction, but I have no interest in seeing a women smacking her lips and shoveling food down her pie hole – and I certainly don’t want to pay to witness that experience. Women should take a cue from an earlier era – if you go on a dinner date order something small but don’t even eat that. Eat before you go and when at dinner just rearrange the food on your plate.

  7. Mage January 22, 2013 at 6:46 am #

    A man shouldn’t throw away his money just like a woman shouldn’t throw away her virginity.

    Both are to be to be kept for the husband/wife and not wasted on ‘dates’. Doing otherwise is robbing your husband or wife. Period.

  8. deti January 22, 2013 at 8:29 am #

    My opinion is the man should keep things very inexpensive for the first several dates.

    The simple fact is that today, being a big spender isn’t alpha. It reeks of desperation and flashiness. I don’t agree that women really like it when men spend a lot of money on a date. It also doesn’t seem to me that a man paying for a dinner is a “turn on”; I suspect what women are describing is a favorable positive response to men they are already attracted to. A man’s willingness and ability to pay for a date does not, it seems to me, generate attraction.

    The days of men shelling out large amounts of cash on dates are pretty much over.

  9. Clint January 22, 2013 at 12:28 pm #

    I think it depends on the person. One woman may think that a man paying is alpha and another thinks it’s beta. My previous girlfriend felt that once the guy started paying it signalled that the relationship was getting serious. Growing up, money was always tight in her family and so she felt she was an inconvenience to me if I payed for all our dates. We talked about this early on in or relationship and decided that if I was planning the date, I’d pay, and if she was, she paid. I planned most of our dates so I ended up paying for most of the dates which is what I preferred anyway. She got to pay occasionally too so she never felt like I was patronizing her or treating her like a little kid. For us it seemed like a good mix of alpha/beta, traditional/progressive, whatever. We were both happy. And in return she’d bake me little surprises all the time. (I have a major sweet tooth.)

    We both got what we wanted. Most of our date nights were what I wanted to do and I got a lot of free baking. Win for me. She liked the fact that I’d take charge most nights and she wasn’t out money every time we went out. Win for her.

    I think there are some absolutes to what women find attractive, like providing (beta) and being in control (alpha) but how a woman interprets a guys actions will determine how she reacts. Each woman is a different combination than the last. There may be a lot of overlap (which is why I think “game” works) but there are always differences unique to each individual.

    That’s what I’ve picked up from my limited experience. I’m interested in reading what everyone else thinks.

  10. Alexander January 22, 2013 at 12:35 pm #

    As usual, Deti nails it. The correct thought process is, “I like it when men I’m already attracted to spend money on me.”

    That, and my own lyin’ eyes confirm and reconfirm that Skittles guy was on to something.

  11. taterearl January 22, 2013 at 1:02 pm #

    I usually rotate around these date ideas for the first three dates.

    1) Drinks
    2) Bowling or some fun activity
    3) Walking around in a park

    Total cost usually under 40 bucks…and I know where I stand.

  12. ibbity January 22, 2013 at 4:04 pm #

    Just a note on how I and my bf do things: when we go out, we pay separately for what we do, and always have. This is partly because we both make about the same amount of money (and neither of us likes traditional romancy things—we’re pretty low-key and both hate to make a show of things like that) and partly, on my end, because I grew up with a very authoritarian father who always made certain that us kids knew that what he bought with HIS money was only ours on sufferance, and I now HATE to have anyone pay for something for me when I can pay for it myself, because when someone else pays for me I either feel controlled or as if I owe them, even if it’s meant as a gift. Just my two cents.
    Also, LOL @ haustin. Do you really find it so repulsive that women have to eat in order to survive, or is it just that all the women you’ve dated have had terrible manners? If you get married, are you going to demand that your wife eat in the kitchen so you don’t have to see her doing it?

  13. Silas Reinagel January 22, 2013 at 6:49 pm #

    It doesn’t matter who pays or doesn’t pay. All that matters is the frame. A dominant man will always set the frame.

    Things are only awkward if the frame isn’t firmly established, which leaves the woman not entirely sure what to do.

  14. Natalie January 22, 2013 at 8:37 pm #

    @ Haustin

    So you’d rather “pretend” to provide something for your ostensible date than actually give her something she’ll enjoy? And last time I checked, food was a sensual pleasure. You want a wife who enjoys pleasure don’t you? Not someone who gets hung up on her rules and on counting every single calorie in and out and binds herself by the twin gods of aesceticism and duty. There’s a certain joie de vivre that comes with exulting in a fresh strawberry or biscuits just out of the oven or a pasta of shrimps. There’s a reveling in the sensations of life that I would hazard, although I can’t prove it, bodes well for a man looking for a passionate mate.

    @ T and A Man

    Stop dating morons. If I want to pay a man for entertainment I’ll go to a concert.

  15. T and A Man January 22, 2013 at 10:57 pm #

    “Stop dating morons. If I want to pay a man for entertainment I’ll go to a concert.”

    So when you go on a date, there is no exchange? or whether your male company is boring or not bears no relevance?

    No of course not. A male is a successful date to a woman because of an array of personable traits that he brings so she is not bored. A female is a successful date to a male based primarily on her looks and hthe chances of sex, and some secondary features relating to her personality such as kindness and sweetness.

    None of which bear a factor in any further relations after the date. it will all boil down to what the man offered in terms of company.

  16. Candide January 23, 2013 at 7:25 pm #

    Why women like the man to pay on the first date: because, free stuff!

    Why men like the woman to pay on the first date: because, free stuff!

    We need theories on why people like free stuff?

    I like what Evan McKatz says on this topic: men should pay for the first few dates (keep them inexpensive though) because it’s an effective strategy, not because it’s fair or they should for whatever BS traditional / modern reasons. Women are cheapskates, regardless of what they say their stance is on paying for dates. You’ll never get anywhere with women if you expect them to pay their fair shares.

  17. Random Angeleno January 23, 2013 at 8:19 pm #

    I’m a cheap bastard. Not an appreciated skill, that’s for sure.

    That said, I’m ok paying for cheap initial dates; the connection (or lack of it) means far more than any amount of money could. But they gotta be cheap dates; at least one of the first three dates should be free or as close to free as possible. The woman who gets insulted by the lack of money spent is *definitely not* for me. Believe me, I have met a few of those. I don’t mind if money is important to a girl, it is to most of them, it just can’t be nearly the primary reason she’s with me. Cuz if it is, I’ll pick up on that very quickly and out she goes. The operating principle is that the time to spend mad money on a girl is *after* she has qualified herself to me, not before like the beta schlub I used to be.

  18. Lovely January 24, 2013 at 2:52 pm #

    The people commenting have totally ignored the very interesting idea that this post is proposing, about the alpha and beta traits conveyed when a man confidently pays on the first date. Whether or not you believe that men are expected to pay in our current culture, there is an important dynamic happening when the bill comes and the man pays. I couldn’t have explained it better!

    I once went on a date where the $14 bill arrived and my date basically forced me to split it with him. NOT a good move, buddy. You would think that was a sign that he didn’t like me, but no, he kept calling and started showing up at my church trying to get another date. ??

  19. whatever January 26, 2013 at 8:14 pm #

    What about if you go on a date where you pay for things and give the woman the chance to spend big and if she does you immediately dump her?

    Is that alpha or beta?

  20. Factory January 29, 2013 at 11:00 am #

    Frankly, any guy that takes a woman on a ‘date’ in the first place is an idiot. Unless by ‘date’ you mean ‘meeting at a lounge for a drink’ or some such nonsense. If you want to get to know a woman…then do so. If she needs you to ‘show you’re a provider’ by buying her shit in exchange for the time, next her and find another one.

    There is NEVER an instance where a ‘date’ is a good idea for newly-introduced folks. The more informal and less pressure, the better.

    What I do find, though, is the refusal of a woman to pay for anything is a HUGE RED FLAG that this is an entitlement princess, not a woman.

    Keep in mind, my experiences don’t seem to be common (I don’t formally ‘date’, we ‘hang out; women have on several occasions in my past taken on the ‘payor’ role (they took me out, that sort of thing), but I can’t for the life of me understand either why most men seem to think a formal date is a good idea, or why women seem to think men don’t notice their ‘entertain me, peasant!’ attitude when it comes to such things (a BIG reason why I never ‘date’ a woman)…

  21. Johnny Green January 31, 2013 at 1:38 am #

    I always pay on the first date unless the girl offers to split.

    BUT- its never a big deal because first dates are always super low investment for me- both time and moneywise.

    I always do drinks/something low-key for a first date. It’s cheap and if the girl is a total dud, you can finish your drink quickly and leave. If she’s fun, you can order more or venue bounce.

    Can’t do that with dinner- you’re stuck with a bigger bill and are essentially “locked-in” for 1-2 hrs with someone you barely know. Plus- no one gets turned on after a big dinner- you feel fat and bloated- total boner killer.

  22. nonames January 31, 2013 at 2:31 pm #

    It’s a matter of perception.
    If the woman is attracted to the man, she will perceive him paying as alpha.
    If she’s not attracted to the man, him paying = beta.

  23. magnushouston February 2, 2013 at 8:56 pm #

    I’m not at all surprised that women like a guy that takes the check and just pays it then and there. I’m sure with women, it just feels right. In the same way, as a guy, it FEELS RIGHT just paying for it.

    The question is: Why does it feel right?

    It is because the purpose of the dinner was not the dinner. If paying for the dinner becomes the issue, the girl must feel bad. I’m not a believer in the Alpha/Beta/Omega/Brave New World BS.

    Here is what I believe. The man goes for what he is INTERESTED in. I don’t ask out fat women because I am not interested in them. When I go on a date with a woman, I don’t consciously try to ‘game her’ or whatever. One big reason why is that I’m not interested in the pumping and dumping. When you’re looking for a spouse, you need a better game plan.

    The reason why I don’t mind paying for the first date is because I am in the one in control. I CHOSE the girl I wanted, I CHOSE the place I wanted, and I CHOSE the time I wanted. Life is fun because this is what I want. And I believe women like being ‘chosen’. Perhaps it makes them feel special.

    You see, I make the event fun FOR ME. This is how I weed out women. If a woman doesn’t like what I do, then she isn’t right for me, and I wasted no time or money. I’m going to go to the steakhouse anyway, so I might as well make it more fun by bringing along a hot woman. If she says, “Ugh, the steakhouse? I’m vegetarian, and I HATE eating meat,” then I say “GOODBYE” and go merrily in life. Obviously, such a woman wouldn’t be right with me. And that’s OK. Everyone is different.

    I pay because I WANT to and because I CAN. Even if a woman completely fakes interest in me, I still end up spending the evening doing what I want and enjoying it. Eventually, I will weed that fake interest out.

    I always pay for any event I do even if it is with family. Why? Because paying for dinner is not an issue.

  24. Retrenched February 4, 2013 at 8:15 am #

    Generally it’s a good idea for a man to come prepared to pay, but he should keep it inexpensive. A man who goes fishing with his wallet has no right to complain when he catches a gold-digger. Besides, a woman who’s truly interested in a man will appreciate an inexpensive date as much as a pricey one, at least for a “getting acquainted” type of date.

    And it’s not like a guy paying for dinner is really going to endear him to a woman who isn’t already attracted to him for other reasons. If a woman is on a date and she’s already put the guy in the “never in a million years” category for whatever reason, then his paying for the date isn’t going to improve his chances with her, no matter how “confident” he looks when he does it.

    It’s not like she’s thinking: “Joe’s a nice guy, but kinda boring, and a little dorky. — oh wait, wow… the way Joe picked up that check, that’s so HOT… maybe he’s not such a dork after all?”

  25. Badger February 8, 2013 at 1:00 am #

    Haley nails it; I have several semi-disconnected thoughts on this that overlap with the Great Matron’s.

    0. Most men I talk to about this issue approach it as a prisoner’s dilemma or Pascalian wager: regardless of traditional or modern values, if I pay for a modest date, my chances of success (sex/attention/affection/more dates) are higher than if I don’t. However if I pay for a large number of dates or pay for an expensive date, my chance of chumpitude (P_ch) is high. Therefore I should pay for a finite number of inexpensive dates to limit/eliminate two dating failure modes (check-please shit-testing and being an entertainer).

    Unplugged men aren’t trying to be romantic with the paying, they are trying to be successful at the dating game.

    1. “Women don’t need a provider” is in my opinion a bogus meme of wishful thinking on the part of modernists, paleofeminists and MRAs. It’s not just that modern women still operate with vestigial attraction triggers, it’s that many educated urban women will (thanks to lifestyle adjustment after having kids) find themselves not so high on the earning ladder after all.


    2. Men should avoid being pinned with dating bills by keeping early dating very informal and resource-light, which has the added benefit. In the first phase of dating there should be no dinner dates, no weekend dates, no exercises of “look at me and how niiiice I am to you!” Your dates need to be fun, interesting, dynamic and an opportunity to show off your personality and tastes.

    I highly recommend Roosh’s bounce-date format, which provides some built-in excitement and opportunities to bow out if things aren’t going well.

    The “first phase” doesn’t necessarily end with reciprocated sex – but sex or no it gives way to a stage of dating where there’s a clear signal of investment from both sides, where the first-run shit tests can be relaxed.

    Never be accountable for paying to go somewhere or do something you don’t want to do. If women think men should pay to entertain them, they need to live with the golden rule (he who has the gold makes the rules). If you take a woman places you go (or want to go), she is a guest in your world, you are inviting her into your life. If on the other hand you are shelling out bucks to finance her lifestyle and you are just along for the ride,

    IMHO the only occasion in which men should approach dating formally is where both sides are really invested in a true courtship exercise (complete with some degree of chastity). That sort of setup, however, is almost surely going to come with some pre-eminent structure to it, like a setup by qualified matchmakers or a tight-knit community dating process like there used to be.

    3. On the idea of “romance” vis a vis who is paying: there seems to be a culturally-reinforced tendency for women to believe whatever they want is to be automatically defined as “romantic,” and that men don’t really get a vote on what is “romantic” or not.

    From a man’s perspective, what’s “unromantic” is the idea that the personal connection honed between two people can be undone by a petty judgment on who is on the hook for two espressos and a biscotti by someone who insists she should receive a barter finder’s fee. A woman who can’t stomach forking over ten bucks for a drink and scoop of ice cream is telegraphing a serious perspective problem.

    4. I have enough faith in my game that to commit $20 or so to a first date with someone who responded well to my initial approach (either online or in person) is a reasonable ante. However, I advise to men the following rule of thumb: if she doesn’t make a sincere offer to pay for something on the second half of the first date or on the second date, you should probably cut her loose. If she’s enjoying your company, it shouldn’t be much skin off of her nose to pick up a bill. If it is, then you’re being employed as an entertainer and paying for the privilege to boot.

    Hint: you can usually game her into by employing the power of expectation and qualification: “nah, don’t worry about the tab – you can buy me a drink next time.” Most girls get the picture that they better take him up on his offer.

    5. Beta guys desperately need to get rid of the idea that their provisioning capacity is something they should showcase up front.
    Many men are painfully and cluelessly plugged into a dating paradigm of putting on a show to try to impress a woman, when the proper route is to make your dating shtick look as much like your “regular me” frame as possible, to put out the idea that this is just how you are, you aren’t pulling out special stops for this one woman in the hopes she will be impressed and like you in return.

    The best gift you can give a woman is a strong alpha-esque personality…whether that alpha trait is social dominance, intense personal connection, emotional adventure or a glimpse of the passionate life will depend on you and the girl. Whatever you pay for on a date is either a frill or a utility towards showcasing that strength of personality.

    6. Frame, frame, frame – act totally nonchalant when paying, as if you were buying a drink for a good friend because it was your turn. Barely acknowledge her expression of thanks. This avoids any supplicating vibe.

    7. Don’t argue with women about this, especially not with ones you are dating. A woman who genuinely wants to discuss it and possibly broaden her horizons or adapt to your way of thinking might be able to handle it, but it’s ludicrous to start the first step of a possible relationship with someone who is strongly committed to an opposing viewpoint on financial matters.

  26. Badger February 8, 2013 at 1:35 am #

    I also see some quotes around the Internet from women who say “I always appreciate it when a guy pays for the date.” This is thrown out as a sort of bone of encouragement to beta guys to keep those credit cards swiping.

    Men need to understanding that “appreciation” in this context has no sexual or romantic component (and if you’re expecting gratitude from a lukewarm date you’re barking up the wrong tree anyway). As deti says, paying for the date is not going to produce tingles unless some of them were already there.

    It’s like a backhanded compliment, really – “thanks for saving me the trouble of digging my wallet out of my purse.”

  27. Badger February 8, 2013 at 1:43 am #

    magnushouston is on the right track with the “I am in charge here” frame, but the sanctimony really kills it.

    The “I am all puffed up about how paying is not an issue never at all forevermore” kind of attitude also smacks of serious betatude.

  28. Professor Ashur February 8, 2013 at 4:21 pm #

    Ever hear of the Skittles Man? Classic Roissy anecdote.

    Buy drinks, that’s it. No meal, no movie, or whatever. It makes you look like you’re investing too much in her = tingle killer.

    The man with options is the man they want (preselection). Hard to convey that you have options when you are willing to plan and pay for a nice dinner out.

    Those were the old days.

  29. greyghost February 25, 2013 at 5:22 pm #

    Men shouldn’t date period. Spend time but not money. If you are going to spend money don’t do the typical romantic date thing take her to the gun range or to the race track (drag racing) include her in what you do to spend time with her to vet her has a potential LTR or wife. Do not blow money on her or any other woman thinking she will appreciate it. Women these days don’t and besides that it is not normal for a woman to appreciate any thing.

  30. ~gwen April 9, 2013 at 10:58 am #

    I’m a little belated leaving a comment here but I wanted to give my 2 cents. I definitely agree with you that a man paying for the date sends a larger message to a woman. It’s interesting to read all these comments from men. I definitely can understand the different perspectives here but I guess I’m old-fashioned. The kind of man I would want to date would be the kind of man that would WANT to pay for the date. I never expect anything fancy (that would make me uncomfortable). But dinner and drinks seems reasonable to me. Hell, even going out for ice cream or a coffee is fine too. I always offer to pay, but I have never once been taken up on my offer. I guess because I’m old school and prefer traditional gender roles in my relationships, I like the idea of a man taking charge of the date. It’s not about me wanting something for free or trying to take advantage of somebody. It’s really what the act of paying represents…and to me it represents a mindset in the man that he is the leader, protector, provider here. Any guy who doesn’t have that mindset wouldn’t be for me anyway.

  31. Jerry April 21, 2013 at 4:30 pm #

    It depends on what the couple wants. If the woman is looking for a provider (which is what the Christian sites will set you up for), then obviously it makes sense for the man to pay. Lovers, on the other hand, treat each other as equals. So if the date is about getting laid, split the bill.

  32. Bob April 23, 2013 at 9:48 pm #

    I always pay for the date.
    Who pays never comes up in conversation, I simply pay for it and usually leave a very good tip also. No “who is going to pay for it” dance comes up, nor would I ever allow it to do so.
    I don’t “spend time not money” because my time can easily be converted to money. If I’m not working, it’s because I’m sleeping, improving myself or doing some recreation (after all, having a relaxed mind and body helps me work more productively). I usually spend time on my own; I’ve never been bored when I’m by myself. So if I ask a woman out, I want to spend some time with her and get to know her better. Since I only ask out attractive women I’m interested in, I expect their company to be worth the price in money and the huge opportunity cost of not doing something else. If it isn’t, I don’t take her out again.

    It is almost always well worth the price.

  33. Dr. Faust June 16, 2013 at 10:01 am #

    Men are wallets and women are sex objects. Do you like being the object of my lust? If not than get that wallet out. You want traditional gender roles? Maybe in your next life when there’s actually some value in it. Men didn’t destroy the gender roles. Women did. And because men didn’t break it they’re not liable to fix it.

    Spending anything on her might actually reduce your chances for sex. You only need money to have a relationship with a woman.

    But sex out of marriage is sin? Sure but you can also get that forgiveness. If God made the world the way is is than he’s responsible for the state of man/woman. He made women after all. Along with all the hypergamy, narcissism, and entitlement.

    You’re options are:

    1. Stay celibate. Highly recommended if you can stand it. Most can’t.
    2. Use prostitutes. It’s the perfect model of male/female relations. Money for sex. How divine.
    3. Game girls which is a huge waste of time and resources compared to prostitutes.
    4. Date and marry and realize you’re nothing to a woman but a wallet. Have fun with slavery to an aging, nagging, abusive woman who cares nothing for you and will leave you the moments she gets bored or you lose your job.

    Modern dating!

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