I recently was talking to a male friend about how I had tried to set up a female friend of mine with a male coworker. The male friend said that he did not like blind dates because he felt they were artificial and too pressured. He said he would prefer to meet someone in a group setting without knowing the inviter’s intentions, and have it be “natural.” He also said that being the matchmaker has too many risks of backfiring.
I have the opposite view. I don’t mind blind dates because I don’t feel pressure from them. The probability that you are going to hit it off with a stranger, even a preselected stranger, can’t be that high, so you might as well just be normal and let the chips fall as they may, instead of gearing yourself up to put on a show for a complete stranger. I also don’t think that most of the time, your relationship with the matchmaker is going to be ruined, unless the matchmaker has such horrible taste that you have an awful, unforgivable time (but wouldn’t you know in advance if your matchmaking friend had terrible taste?). At least SOMEONE thought of you and was trying to help you.
So, readers: blind dates – yay or nay? Weigh in in the comments!
Haley's Halo 
The biggest flaw I have seen is too many women ASSUME that their men friends would be happy with their non threatening (no competion) woman friends. When I hear the code words; Intelligent ,Great Personallity , or Inner Beauty, I run the other direction. Now reason this. If Bertha has not had a date in Five years the must be a reason.
Absolutely not. They will have no idea what I actually like.
Women only recommend date options to their male friends when they think that male friend would be a good match/fit for their female friend. Whether or not that female friend would be a good match/fit for the man is never really considered or is an afterthought.
If anything, they assume that the man will instantly love the woman because women are, by default, “awesome” in this society, even if reality is somewhat less to that effect.
If a man is setup on a date and is not pleased with the woman chosen for him, then both women will turn against him, and treat him like an enemy to that female friend’s happiness. Any concerns the man has about that woman will be ignored and rationalized away by the collective female hamster party. Protecting “Team Woman” is of highest priority, so obviously “men are stupid and just don’t get it.”
Bottom line: women think about and want all their female friends to be happy, and don’t think about or care as much about whether or not their male friends are equally happy.
Or, perhaps even, women have no-freaking-clue about how to be a good wife anymore, or even what makes men happy, and aren’t qualified to recommend someone else.
Are women as critical of their own lack of wifely qualifications as they are on mens’ lack of husbandly qualifications?
It usually ends up being a good deal for the woman, and less so for the man.
True story:
After high school, I was living in my own apartment with a friend from church.
I had a full-time job with a major international tech company, while also completing an associates degree part time.
I was assertive, and never asked for time off from work.
I received awards for good work.
I saved my money, paid my bills, tithed, and had no debt.
I was serious about my faith, a virgin, prayed a lot, served a lot at church, played on the worship team, and led some group bible studies and prayer times.
I was Good looking, but not traffic-stopping, amazingly hot looking.
The woman recommended to me by my Christian female friend:
Pretty, kind, fun, Easy-going, Some similar interests.
Two years older than me
Lived with her parents
Did not attend college
Only worked part-time for wal-mart, and was not looking for anything more or better, and also was not preparing in any way to become a future housewife/homemaker.
Skipped going to work when she didn’t feel like going.
Had $8,000 of credit card debt with nothing substantial to show for it (which she also kept a secret and never told me about)
Was not very serious about faith before, but wanted to become more “devout” when she saw how serious I was about my faith.
Not a virgin. She slept with some stereotypical badass jerk ex-boyfriend before she met me (and didn’t tell me this for a long time).
Very needy, more like taking care of a daughter than a girlfriend. Very weird.
And non of these obvious red-flag concerns were ever mentioned to me by my long-time Christian female friend. She wanted her female friend to be happy, and knew that I would be a good deal for her. That’s it! Whether or not she would be a good wife for me was never even a factor considered.
I do not recall ever having gone on a blind date, though my friends had occasionally offered to set me up. I want to have a brief conversation with the woman first to see if a date is worth our time.
Depends. There are so many factors at play. How well does the matchmaker know both parties? Are there expectations on both sides? Another big consideration is how either personality and temperament responds to such set-ups. Some people can handle it fine while others will be too rigid the entire evening. For example, a friend set me up on one over summer. I figured there was nothing to lose so I went in relaxed. However, the woman was way too serious about it. The effectiveness of blind dates differ from person to person.
If you’re a guy and a single girl is setting you up, not a good idea (see Deti Fan’s post above)
If you’re a guy and a non-single girl is setting you up, make this determination first. Is she more loyal to you or to the girl? 90% of the time, it’ll be to the girl, in which case it’s not a good idea. The other 10% of the time (say, when she’s related to you), it might be ok.
If you’re a guy and a red-pill guy is setting you up, good idea. She’ll at least be physically attractive.
If you’re a girl and a girl is setting you up? You’ll be punching above your weight most likely, but you better bring your A game. If you can handle rejection, go for it.
If you’re a girl and a guy is setting you up? Depends on if you’re ready to reject a guy, because that’s what you’ll probably do.
Toz hit the nail on the head.
There are trends depending on your sex and who is doing the setting up.
Accepting from married couples tends to be a better idea than singles, but even then sometimes the results can be dodgy.
The amount of responsibility put onto a man for dating can weigh heavily on him. As your male subject suggested, there are a lot of risks in asking for a date, dating and pursuing a relationship for a guy. As for the feeling of artificiality and the pressure, that’s inherent to American culture and the reason that people look for the organic, relaxed relationship of their lifetime in the first place.
As someone who will be going on -a lot- of blind dates (or maybe mute dates depending on language barrier) very soon, I find myself inspecting why I will be allowing myself to do this in Ukraine but not in America. Maybe it’s because there will be much less expectance to perform by foriegn women (so I’m told, we’ll see), or because I trust the leaders of the expedition to have both mine and the woman’s best interest at heart (demonstrated by past performance enough that I am convinced).
So I suppose the answer would be Yes, blind dates/setups can be a good idea, but they shouldn’t be offered more than one or two times between the same people, it’s only building pressure and increasing resistance to the offeree’s.
Well, I do have a dog in this hunt – my wife of almost 22 years and I met on a blind date arranged by mutual friends. Our closest ‘couple friends’ are married because we set *them* up on a blind date 21 years ago.
Toz has interesting insight but I think my advice is; if the people setting you up on the date are a married couple you trust and agree with each other, go ahead.
Also, bluntly – I enjoy meeting people, so why not?
I think people who perceive themselves as having a lot of options, dating-wise, will tend to view blind dates as having too many expectations and too much pressure, while people who have few chances to meet people in the normal course of things are probably going to be more open to the idea.
When I was a single, twenty-something guy, I lived in a small rural community where there were a lot of unattached guys my age, and relatively few unattached women. I seldom met any single women, and would have welcomed someone fixing me up. No one ever did, though (older)people often joked about it. I always assumed that the single women in the community neither wanted, nor needed any one to fix them up.
As other posters have mentioned, in most of the blind dates I’ve observed the girl was punching substantially above her weight class (weight not being used as a “fat” word here). However, what’s the harm? It’s just a date. I’m all for blind dates. They’re fun, both people are presumably pre-vetted for common decency, you get to meet someone new…
The only stress IMO is if you find the other person physically unattractive, you have to find a way to say you “didn’t click” to both the blind date and the matchmaker to avoid a 2nd date. Obviously the same thing applies if you don’t want a 2nd date for reasons other than physical unattractiveness, but usually those things are more “acceptable” reasons to call things off. Also it can be a hassle if the matchmaker keeps saying “but he/she is PERFECT for you!! give it another chance!” etc etc.
But overall, assuming everyone is cool about it, blind dates are great.
@ Anon
“I’m sorry I don’t feel any chemistry” or “I’m sorry there’s no chemistry from my end” (if you know she is into you) is something that all women will understand.
I think one of the most important things is having the date at night. Day dates are like an express lane to the friend zone. I’ve had pleasant times with night dates. Day dates are awful.
And yeah, there is an awkward feeling to that, line online dating. I think drinking helps with that “awkward vs spark” hence why so many people meet others while intoxicated at bars/clubs. For arranged dates both people must be aware, “this is probably going to be a bit awkward, don’t expect sparks to fly and amazing chemistry during awkward phase.”
I don’t know many (any?) people I’d trust to set me up on a blind date, and even if I did, I’d want to know a bit of info going in. For instance, I’d want to know going in that this guy appreciated intelligence/was ok with dating a scientist, because that tends to be a major hangup, and I don’t want to waste my time (or his time/money).
(In case anyone was planning to jump on the “all guys really appreciate is beauty, intelligence is irrelevant” bandwagon, I do get that that beauty is their primary attractor, and it’s fine, as long as they don’t dock major points for intelligence).
@ Andrea
As a health professional I get along well with science women.
Intelligence tends to be a desirable trait in women, but it depends on how it was fostered in the home environment.
If she uses her intelligence to manipulate, obfuscate, and justify her emotional outbursts and an entitlement mentality that’s a net negative.
If she uses her intelligence via Scripture to become a 1 Peter 3, Titus 2, Proverbs 31, etc. type of woman then that is one I would want to grab ahold of immediately.
Beauty gets you in the door, but your personality is what will make us want to keep you.
@Andrea
Intelligence is usually a valuable and appreciated trait……..as long as it is not a woman’s source of arrogance and pride. I would be happy to be in a relationship with a humble, bright, educated woman, but I would not like it if she uses that intelligence to prove to herself and others that she is better than those with less intelligence. That’s just mean!
I also recommend being very low-key about your intelligence. You don’t have to hide or be ashamed of it, but you also shouldn’t be using your dates to highlight or trumpet your advanced degrees and notable career achievements. You’re looking for a lover, not a business partner. Just relax, be polite and kind, and trust that most men will value your bright mind as much as you do. Be prepared to offer the same value and respect to your dates as well.
It’s just a date. Go, have a good time, but have a well defined exit plan and a pre determined trigger point for punching out early.
Thanks, gentlemen for the encouragement. It is appreciated.
I don’t think I ever had a true “blind” date, but I have had a few “fix-ups,” in which someone told me that whoever, the girl you met last year at so-and-so’s party, was looking for a guy (coupled with the proposer having confirmed with her that I was at least potentially that guy). That isn’t how I met my wife, so in that sense it didn’t work out, but I have had several reasonably pleasant evenings and at least one LTR (i.e., about three months) that way, so I’m certainly not thinking it’s a bad idea.
I mean, the opportunity cost of the blind date is a night spent at home watching TV, right? So it’s not that bad. If you are sitting at home reading Kierkegaard’s “Either/Or” (or writing the next “Either/Or”), then maybe you should skip the blind date.
As long as it is minimal investment…sure I could act with anyone for 30 minutes. If she is attractive…then I’d go for more.
In our culture, men are required to show GOBS of Alpha right from the get-go. The idea of the blind date at least lengthens the time of the initial interaction, and provides people some sort of meaningful conversation topic. Time is a great equalizer for less physically attractive men to show their dominance through game and socializing, rather than looks and clothes.
There are a few folks from whom I’d consider a blind date recommendation. VERY few. My younger brother, I’d consider it. His wife? No damned way. I’d certainly consider who is setting it up.
But in the end, why not? It’s just one date. Coffee, a drink after work, nothing high-cost or high pressure, certainly.
And if the setting-up folks get uptight about how it went… well, I think I’m around other humans too much already.
“Toz” point is that it depends a lot on context, and it is as others said very good.
But the specific point made by many other commenters is that the context that matters most to men is that women handle disinterest badly and overt rejection very badly, and after a date unfortunately rejection must be overt.
In theory two people have a blind date, spend some time together, and then whatever. If the woman is not interested in a second date, tough on the loser. But if the woman is interested in a second date, and the man is not, bad news for the man. Retreating from such a situation is a difficult task.
That’s also a reason why women should not make overt moves on menL the experience of many ATTRACTIVE men is that it is very hard for them to say no, because “no means no” when it is said by women, but from a man it means he is an abusive asshole who wants to “punish a woman with rejection” or at least “a small-dicked loser who can’t handle real women”.
“if the woman is interested in a second date, and the man is not, bad news for the man.”
I must have missed that in my dating life. The normal male procedure is to say, heartily, “I’ll call you,” and then not call her. If the friend who fixed you up inquires, you can either tell the friend the truth or make vague excuses, depending on the intimacy of that particular relationship. Problem solved.
So Seth Connor, you’re off to Ukrainia… Be careful in your dealings; nothing’s as sexy as an American passport. I wish you wisdom in this.
I was set up for a blind date. Pretty gal, totally unrealistic about her situation in life. She thought I did not have enough hair, and didnt like my minivan. What she did not know was that I was so over the top in financial security, it would have made her head spin. But I dont advertise through visible consumption. Anyways, after she spent a few minutes lecturing me about myself, my manners remained, and I took her home, and that was that. Then I heard that she married a guy one month later she had met online, absconded with her daughter to another city. Her ex husband went to court, go the courts to force her to obey her separation agreement, she separated from her second husband, moved back, and then called me again. Thankfully I had call display. So she might have been interested in a second date, hahahaa, oh I smile as I type this.
I have no female friends who don’t already want to date me; thus, the number of blind dates I go on is exceedingly low.
Exceptions: my friend’s 60 year old mother keeps trying to set me up on a blind date (bless her; the world needs more women like her) with someone in her church. I think that 29 years old than me counts as “matron”, not “friend”.
Now, my male friends? The only downside is that they pressure me into dates with the girls they don’t want to date. Fortunately, we all have differing tastes…
I feel like men should ask women for a date, rather than having another set up the date.
Would a woman prefer to be asked out by a man? Or would a woman prefer to set up the date or have some mutual friend set up the date?
I’m a man, and I prefer to do the asking out for dates. On a date I’d like a woman to know from my actions that I chose her, that this is something I desire, that I lead and take the initiative.
When I go out dancing I frequently get asked for a dance. I feel like the roles are reversed; I should be the one initiating and leading, that I am failing to act out my desires, that I am failing to pursue and communicate what I want. Women wouldn’t be able to ask me to dance as often if I were asking more women to dance, or if I were not at the dance to begin with.
Pursuing something, or some one, helps reinforce that I actually want this thing and demonstrates to others that I will work to attain what I want. This is at least partly why I think men should lead and pursue. By pursuing a woman he shows the woman that he wants her and will work to have her, and also very importantly reinforces in his own mind that he actually wants this woman.
Are not men and women complementary in regards to who pursues and who is pursued?
For some of these same reasons I don’t care to have profiles on dating sites; the men should be the first to contact the women.
For clarification “I feel like the roles are reversed” when women ask me to dance.
I see leads and follows in partner dancing as being exceptionally analogous to men and women in relationships. Partner dancing, as experienced in ballroom, swing and blues, is an invaluable social experience for men and women.
As Toz says, context of who is setting it up for who is important.
I’ve stopped letting women fix me up because they were *always* fixing me up with somebody who was clearly batting above her league with me. I almost always had the feeling the subject girl was someone they felt sorry for and no thought was ever given to how I might feel about meeting someone like that. Even my mother once did it. Don’t get me wrong, I love my mother, but that girl was not one of her shining moments.
At this point in my life, I’d only trust the men close to me for blind dates.
Only If the girl setting me up is hot and hot friends…
Otherwise, HELL no! If I had a dime for every time a girl said she had a “hot” single friend who was not attractive at all or overweight, I’d be a millionaire. Christian women tend to be the most guilty of this as well because church culture pressures men to “not be shallow”.
I am friends with a wonderful married couple my age. I would allow his wife to set me up because she’s beautiful and rolls with attractive women. Although in my experience, any time I’ve met a woman that piques my interest, she’s already in a relationship, engaged, or married.
My sister in law is beautiful, she set me up with one of her friends, who was admittedly beautiful as well. We weren’t compatible for a variety of reasons.
Nonetheless I’ve learned two things:
1.) attractive women have attractive friends
2.) most Christian seem unable or unwilling to accurately assess the physical attractiveness of their female friends.
Jzb–
2.) most Christian seem unable or unwilling to accurately assess the physical attractiveness of their female friends.
This is attributable to a few factors:
1) Christian women factor in personality/character as part of a woman’s attractiveness. In other words, 4 face + 10 personality = a catch a man would be insane to pass up!
2) Christian women do not understand how important appearance is for most men.***
3) Maybe they DO recognize that Christian friend Y isn’t the prettiest, but they believe that the man will come to find that her personality makes up for the deficit in looks.
***not that it helps to see guys settling for plain or fat women, because that just leads to #3 that I described.
The traditional blind date, where the guy is given the girl’s phone number, calls her (she expecting his call), and makes an appointment for dinner or whatever, at which point the two first see other face-to-face, may not be the best scenario for fixing a guy up with someone whose personality score greatly exceeds her looks. Inevitably, the guy who knows he’s been fixed up builds up fantastic expectations, and, when those are disappointed in the first 30 seconds, he may have trouble getting back on an even keel. For these situations, some more subtle approach might be preferable.
However, as I have said, it is a great mistake to think that super good looks are a prerequisite to, or even the main qualification for, catching a man. One of the things that I find baffling about Haley and her supporters is that they ratchet back and forth frantically between insisting that ALL men care only about looks, and rage at the men who “setttl[e) for plain or fat women.” Don’t rage at the world; it doesn’t care and you aren’t entitled (unless you can draw out leviathan with a hook). Instead, ask yourself, what do those women have that overcomes their plainness or fatness?
I’d always thought a blind date would be awkward and possibly pointless because I’d be afraid my looks wouldn’t meet the man’s standards, so we’d be sitting through a date where one person already knew he wasn’t interested. The male commenters here have all pretty much confirmed that thought. Similarly, it’s not pleasant to be asked (as a girl), “What do you think of X?” when X has had plenty of opportunities to show an interest in me and hasn’t ever done so. In other words, what I think of X doesn’t matter if he doesn’t find me attractive.
@Hana
Churches are full of physically attractive women. If the setup was arranged through church, there is no reason for most men to avoid that blind date based on the possibility she might not be the most attractive woman. Even this post shows that we are more likely to refuse a blind date based on the person trying to set us up. Do we trust that person to have our best interest at heart when picking a woman for us to meet? Do they know us well enough to know what kind of woman would be best for us? Did they pick her because they really believe she would be the best match for us?
Men are just as uncomfortable and awkward during blind dates as women are? Probably more so, because we’re expected to pull off a minor miracle. And we question if we have the right clothes, car, mannerisms, status, job, life goals, personality, etc to appear attractive enough for women. We’re in the same boat. One mention of the wrong job title, and women immediately check-out of the conversation too. It’s not fun for us either.
Women only need to exceed a minimum threshold of physical attractiveness to get our attention. That is far more controllable than how we survive a bad economy with less job opportunities.
In most cases, X hasn’t shown an interest because of this:
http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/11/15/why-men-are-withdrawing-from-courtship/
@Aunt Haley
Please allow me to gender flip those 3 points
1) Christian men factor in a man’s character as part of a man’s attractiveness. In other words, 4 alpha + 10 character = a catch any woman would be insane to pass up.
2) Christian men do not understand how important charisma is for women.
3) Maybe they DO recognize that Christian friend X isn’t the most manly, but they believe that a woman will come to find that his character makes up for a deficit in charisma.
Asking men to accept less beautiful women is somewhat analogous to asking women to accept less alpha men. It isn’t less attractive/repulsive on a Christian Philosophical level, but it is on a visceral level. You yourself have described how alpha is a MUST for men. Many Christian men NEED that advice. However, things aren’t going to change over night. Women can and definitely should help with this.
Give a man props for trying. Keep his secrets. Treat him kindly.
Society has two sexes that are supposed to work together for cohesion. Men have to help raise healthy women. Women have to help raise healthy men.
yay! –seriously, what risk is there?– the risk that you can tease your matchmaking friend for an awkward night OR thank your matchmaking friend for someone you really want to get to know better! it’s worth the chance…
New rule?
Matchmaker always picks up (refunds) the tab for any dates they try to setup, whether those dates were successful or not.
Not sure I’d let any of the parishes I’ve been part of in recent years fix me up on blind dates either. Parish social life tends to be dominated by women and based on my experience, I have very little faith that Catholic women will actually think of me any more than their secular sisters do. Thanks, but no thanks.
Rosanna, you use the word CHANCE. Yes it is a sucker’s bet in a rigged casino. We get a big waste of time and feeling as well as being let down, insulted and put down by the matchmaker. Real World blind dates are a humiliation ritual.
I think there should be more blind-dates: more options. In fact, if you’re married, your part-time job should be arranging them for your friends. :P
Lon, I don’t care at this point.
I don’t like blind dates, because it sends a message that says “You’re not capable of finding dates on your own.” I find it condescending.
And here’s something that hasn’t been mentioned. Whether you are a man, or a woman, if you have rejected someone as a potential love interest, DO NOT try to fix that person up with someone else. It’s insulting.
Everyone wants who they want. It’s no shallow, it’s just the way it is.
Blind date arrangers work on the theory that someone who is alone would be happy with ANYONE.
Really?!!!! If they were happy with anyone, they would not be alone.
Blind dates work so very well in movies. Life aint like movies.
An old friend told me he knows me better than anyone because he’s known me for so long and that he would find someone for me. I told him no, as I’ve just completed a terrible divorce and need time to heal (I had told him that twice before, but he wouldn’t listen). He told me he’d be offended if he found someone and I refused to come to his house for dinner to meet her (I really am not ready, and see no reason to pursue other women right now, and see no reason to hurt someone’s feelings or be pressured as he calls me again and again afterwards to find out how it’s going, which is what he would do).
I’ve actually been gently distancing myself from him (and now not so gently, after he threatened me the last time). He has self-destructed over the last 15 years into a world of booze, obesity and couch potato-ism.
Beyond the timing being wrong for me, the problems with a blind dates are:
1) People don’t know me as well as they think they do.
– They’ll think that I would want a woman fascinated with spectator sports (I’m a former NFL prospect). However, now (30 years later), I have no interest in spectator sports, and don’t even watch the Super Bowl.
– I went to a name brand school filled with wealthy people, with a high percentage of preppies. The woman who is interested in dressing up and going to bars or fancy restaurants would bore me. I hated the hardcore preppies in college and have no interest in preppy types. I like smart women and am interested in all sorts of topics, but I don’t care if she went to Nowhere U as long as she has an intellectual curiosity. I don’t have to be connected to an Exeter / Yalie.
– I can’t imagine the thought of meeting someone for a drink, because unlike when I was in college and would have 14 beers a night sometimes, I drink perhaps 4 beers a year now. I don’t enjoy being around people who drink much, or who “need a drink” …
– The irritating friend mentioned above was shocked when I emailed him a photo of me kayaking through a large wave on Jan 1 (which I sent him to let him know that he has no idea what my interests are, without directly saying so). Any woman without a sense of adventure and a strong desire for outdoor activities would be immediately off any list of mine (if I develop a list some day).
2) People who like to play matchmaker really want it to work out, and generally follow up to find out how it went. And if the matchmaker is a friend you want to keep, you run a big risk of straining the friendship if it doesn’t work out. The guy I mentioned above did connect me with a woman who I hired part-time to work for me, and has been following up with me several times a week to find out how she’s doing. I had to tell her to not say a word to him about work and have avoided talking about her performance, because I fear that anything I say will get back to her via him, and vice versa. Blind date matchmakers do the same thing. If you want to set up a gossip circle, go on a blind date.
3) I would imagine that the ones who get set up are doing so either because their friends are pressuring them or because they have no other way of meeting people. That means you get to go out with someone who doesn’t want to be there or someone who no one wants. Neither of those scenarios sound appealing.
I haven’t seemed to have trouble meeting people (yes, even women) since my wife and I separated. I have no problem in a social situation talking to someone new, or even starting up a conversation with someone I meet on a trail in a national park. I figure that if I want to meet someone, I can do it on my own, rather than have someone find someone for me. I know what kind of person I would connect with far than my friends do (and don’t we all?). I figure that I don’t need someone else’s help to do so.