Just as pretty much every evangelical church has a Youth Group Guy, pretty much every evangelical church also has a Pervy Church Geezer.
On the surface, the Pervy Church Geezer looks like any other typical Church Geezer**. (**Roughly age 55+, but the whiter/less hair, the more geezery. “Old enough to have a grandkid whose mom wasn’t a teenager” is another good off-hand measure.) Like most Church Geezers, Pervy Church Geezers tend to be longtime church members in good standing, with faithful, post-menopausal wives and adult children who have permanently left the nest. The main difference is that respectable Church Geezers actively refuse to be attracted to young women, reminding themselves that (a) young single women at church could (theoretically) be their daughters or granddaughters, and (b) their wives deserve their libidinal respect, while Pervy Church Geezers treat Sunday morning greeting time as a three-minute Mardi Gras: a time when all of the normal rules of conduct don’t apply, and they get to hug and squeeze young women without prejudice under the guise of church family friendliness.
For the typical Pervy Church Geezer, this short greeting window is the highlight of his week, as it is most likely the only time he (a) sees any young women, and (b) is permitted physical contact with them. If you are a young woman and you get to know a Pervy Church Geezer, he will probably keep tabs on your attendance and mention to you that he missed you if you skip a week. He may also compliment you profusely on your appearance, especially if you wear a dress. And if you wear heels, his head may explode.
One thing that Pervy Church Geezers are not is creepy. Creepy church geezers are sexually threatening; Pervy Church Geezers are not. Rather, Pervy Church Geezers are like jolly grandpas getting one last jump on a car battery.
Although I will say from experience that if a Pervy Church Geezer sticks his face in your neck when you give him his Sunday morning hug, that might be crossing the line a little.
Haley's Halo 
My question is why Haley is going to the 8 am service instead of to a Sunday evening service at a local megachurch. There generally aren’t any geezers, pervy or otherwise, at the evening service, and people don’t usually presume that physical affection is appropriate in a megachurch, because they don’t know you. (A person could even go to both.)
Then again, pervy geezer action is better than no action, what?
“My question is why Haley is going to the 8 am service instead of to a Sunday evening service at a local megachurch”
Because she’d rather have her grievance.
If he crosses the line or makes you feel uncomfortable, be sure to tell some of the men in your church. Not necessarily pastors, but some of the men. Men are usually oblivious to this, but if pointed out we won’t tolerate it. This has happened at churches I’ve been in twice that I know of. As you note – it is a common problem.
Also, if you don’t have men that are trustworthy enough to do this for you, you need to find a new church.
You say that Pervy Church Geezers aren’t creepy, but honestly, older men like that *do* creep me out. There is one such fellow at my church and I remember trying to get away from him when I was new at the church (it was my second service, and the congregation was sitting down for drinks and refreshments afterwards, and he came over to my table to introduce himself). Well long story short he wouldn’t stop talking and then he kept staring longingly into my eyes (lol) and I wanted to gag – a little bit. It was SO inappropriate as he could have been my grandpa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I also think he had a wife on the other side of the room. I finally managed to excuse myself saying that I wanted more brownies before they were all gone – and then ran to my parents. LOL!
The easiest way to get away with being a PCG is to have a cute latin american accent.
y81–
Since when are megachurches good places for meeting single men? Young men who attend megachurches usually are tagging along with a girlfriend or wife or are beta-orbiting a female friend. Plus, megachurches tend to be too large to make any meaningful connections.
Haley, there are a bunch of mid aged and older guys who were married in Church. Not megachurches, agreed.
As one of them, I find it interesting that we geezers are creepy while the woman who is going through her third divorce (and has her kids in therapy) is supported.
FWIW, getting too close to 55 :-(
2 clarifications… previous post should read “were married but now are not”. … and did I invent pervy geezer as a term in the last post, or did you have this description (the creeping hands geezer) in the can?
Finally, the “let’s all hug each other” thing at church freaks me out. I hug. Sure. My Mum, my kids, and my grandkids. Close friends who are in emergencies. (If I had) Girlfriend or Fiancee, yes. That’s it. Strangers can stay away, five feet away is much nicer.
Freaking ecclesiatical hippies.
Hopeful future topics:
1. Undersexed, underdressed overmadeup slut divorcee
2. Stuck up shallow girl posse
3. High school boy forced to church by parents
4. Uberbeta divorced 40ish man
5. Worship leader guy
6. Sound booth/audiovisual techie guy
7. Smelly perfume/Depends undergarment geezerette
8. Vaguely creepy/socially awkward associate pastor
9. Uberbeta married 40ish man
10. Actual alpha married 40ish man.
11. Late 30s-mid 40s blonde housewife who wears a lot of eye makeup so that you can tell she is a *demon* in bed. I mean this in the best way possible. (Seriously, you’ve seen them.)
I went somewhere platonic with a pervy church geezer. Before I knew he was pervy, that is. Then he hit on me profusely and stalked me at work the next while and continues not to take the hint that I am not interested. Then again, I am a fox — can’t blame him for trying. Perhaps a telegram something along the lines of ‘you’re past your best before [insert music here] so you best walk out the door” [more music] might suffice.
@ Samson:
Late 30s-mid 40s blonde housewife who wears a lot of eye makeup so that you can tell she is a *demon* in bed.
I have seen this type.
She is one of the more attractive women in church but does not usually flaunt it except for the eye makeup. She dresses to flaunt her body only occasionally, and on those occasions she turns heads. She is in good physical condition for her age, takes care of herself and is not overweight despite having had two kids. She was popular in high school, probably a cheerleader, maybe on student council. She is not well liked at church because the other less attractive women openly envy her. Even the pastor’s wife doesn’t much like her. She came to God later in life having come from only a nominally “religious” family that attended a church close to her childhood home and only on the high holidays. She is fluent in Christianese.
Chris–
Church geezers are only creepy if they’re creepy. Be a typical nice older guy with grandkids and nobody will think you’re pervy or creepy.
Since when are megachurches good places for meeting single men?
The actual church services at big churches are terrible for meeting members of the opposite sex, or for meeting anybody really. However, depending on your age, the youth group, young adult group, or other social activities can be pretty good. All of which smaller churches tend not to have.
Overall, large churches are better for meeting people, because, well, there are more people there and thus more potential matches.
A, I agree totally, and have made similar points myself, but Haley is obdurate. (Perhaps, as Eumaios suggests, because if she actually met a lot of single thirty-something guys, she wouldn’t have anything to complain about.) I would only add, however, that most church activities, megachurch or otherwise, are disproportionately populated by females. To obtain a decent ratio, you have to find something business or sports oriented, which will attract male participants (e.g., a church ski trip, an affinity group for people in the financial services industry, that sort of thing).
Someone above mentioned that church is a horrible place to meet guys. Well, where do you meet guys then? If they’re not going to where the ladies are, then it seems they don’t want to meet a woman all that bad. What do they do – sit at home alone all day??? I’m looking for serious answers to this!
I’m not sure, Elisa, if you mean Christian guys specifically. In general, guy-heavy environments (other than bars) include ball games, ski slopes, engineering departments, construction jobsites, etc.
If you mean Christian guys, John Cotton (I think it was) commented that there are many more women saved than men, and that hasn’t changed in 400 years.
Well ski slopes I can’t get to easily, I don’t work with engineers (or near them), and I don’t think I’ll be meandering to any construction jobsites in the near future… but I live in San Francisco and I can always make it out to a few ball games at PacBell :o). Yah, I *was* wondering where the best place to meet guys (in general) was. It seems now that I’m single I am having a hard time meeting potential matches, so I am looking for ideas :o).
Actually, … I *could* book a ski trip soon ~ it’s October already! Not a bad idea :o).
Lill: You went someplace “platonic” with a church geezer (of as-yet-undisclosed perviness)? As a man on the cusp of geezerdom, trust me: No, you didn’t.
While he should have known better than to ask and his inability to get the message afterwards is unforgiveable, you understood this sort of thing much better in February: https://haleyshalo.wordpress.com/2011/02/11/reader-mail-help-a-sista-out/
As a fox you should know: with great power comes great responsibility. It’s in Matthew somewhere, I think.
Church is not a good place, in my view, to meet a spouse for various reasons, but from the female perspective it’s just that there aren’t very many young men in the churches any longer.
I think Brendan’s comment would be more accurate if the last two words were dropped. I have no reason to believe that there has ever been a place or time where lots of single young men went to church.
y81–
(Perhaps, as Eumaios suggests, because if she actually met a lot of single thirty-something guys, she wouldn’t have anything to complain about.)
Oh, I probably would. Single thirtysomething guys are usually single for a reason.
“Single thirtysomething guys are usually single for a reason.”
Grievance springs eternal.
Well, yours against me certainly seems to.
Touché, Haley. ;)
Old Guy – The age of this guy puts him almost in a different century than I am. When I say geezer, I make no exaggeration. I understand still that if you are in the funeral -planning phase of life, AND I am in some ways your BOSS… AND I have a current love interest that you are well aware of [or ought to be if you asked around]… AND I have stated that I would not date someone that I worked with [and meant it]…. that hitting on me is not only a classless faux pas – but a major misjudgment. This lack of judgment is perhaps what is limiting him from finding someone closer to his own age.
Elisa – guys at modern evangelical churches these days are mostly closeted homosexuals. That’s the plain truth. Those who remain are mega Betas or seriously emotionally damaged [all of these things are nothing God can’t handle…they’re all in the right place, just like the rest of us]. Unfortunately the Alphas/more normal guys tend to be non-Christians when it comes down to the whole “actually” following what the bible says bit.
Note – I did say “I” understand it. Obviously he does not.
I guess I’ll have to marry a mega-beta, lol, because finding a Christian man is definitely a requirement for me!!!
LifeInLongLegs – Are you yourself male or female? Younger, middle-aged, or older? Have you ever tried looking for a life partner in church? Just curious how you know all this :o).
Deti, you are an accurate observer of the flawed bunch in churches.
Long legs, many of us are not gay, but to hit on anyone at church is pervy. it is like hitting on you at the gym.
The young Lady who thought he could have a platonic relationship with a near geezer … Men lust, and he would have been lusting in part. Age does not make us safe.
Haley, I am not nice or geezery. Yet.
This whole topic is anti-male whining. We all get older, after all. And for crying out loud, don’t go to a church where people hug. It is a sign of sensate people who are too emotional about everything, especially religion. I don’t care who you are. I don’t want to hug you. Not at church or anywhere else. Same thing for the “let’s hold hands to pray” nonsense.
Elisa Diane: You can’t find someone without taking chances and your date is no exception, If there really is a guy making sexual advances on you, why aren’t you talking to church elders about a disciplinary matter? Does your Baptist megachurch even have such people? If it happens in church, deal with it there or shut up. Many, many women wish someone paid them so much attention.
Was I just told to shut up? How rude. Anyway, I wasn’t *totally* grossed out by the older gentleman, but dating older men is just not my thing (like, men who are more than 20 years my senior). I guess I just don’t like the idea of a married man hitting on a much younger woman because I wouldn’t want my future husband to do the same, and that’s probably a big part of what was weirding me out. Sorry if I offended anyone!!!
To the person who said there is something wrong with men who are single and in their thirties… I think that’s a little judgmental. Life isn’t perfect. There are a whole host of reasons that relationships in the twenties may not work out. I myself have been looking for 11 years for “the one”, both passively and actively, and still haven’t found him. Someone could judge me and say there must be something wrong with me, but I know that isn’t true. Perhaps I’ve been a little immature here and there along the way – lol – but not “screwed up” or anything.
“guys at modern evangelical churches these days are mostly closeted homosexuals.”
Well, there’s a big generalization! Code Lavender shaming language, too.
In fact, this entire discussion is full of examples of the anti-male shaming tactics catalog, on the part of several females here. Sad, how predictable many young women today are, following scripts written by others before them…
There is no “Code Lavender” shaming language going on here. Saying someone is a closeted homosexual is just giving a piece of information – stating a fact. She didn’t say “Gays are lame (or stupid, or weird, or idiots, etc.)”.
Uh, that’s not information; it’s a stereotype, smearing all evangelical males as closeted gays. A gross generalization. But a woman is always right, and a man calling her to task when she says something wrong is always wrong, right?
“Well, yours against me certainly seems to.”
I am become Shiva, pointer-outer of grievances.
LOL @ Eumaios.
I am a Catholic single man of a certain age. I take care of myself and it shows. I am definitely not gay. But no one at my parish to get interested in. The good looking ones are either too young for me or they’re married. The single ones are frumps yet they must think they deserve alpha because they’re not sending indicators of interest my way. So I have to think: am I that creepy? I don’t behave that way and I do my best not to look at (pretty) women that way at Mass, but that may still be a meme I’ll have to look at…
Well once again she might have been incorrect to say that there are no straight men in church, but if anyone is saying that she is shaming gays by her statement that most or all of men in church are closeted homosexuals, she’s not shaming them. She might be flat-out wrong though, like I said.
“Saying someone is a closeted homosexual is just giving a piece of information – stating a fact”
A ‘fact’? Where’s the evidence? Good grief, a depressing view of church.
Dear Will: you might need a dictionary.
All = all
Mostly = mostly.
I wasn’t raised in the church, I have gay friends. Gay friends who know, confirm, and have photo-evidence that yes, MOST of the guys in the evangelical churches here are in the closet. Not ALL. MOST.
P.S. YOUR defensiveness doesn’t mean that I’m launching an attack.
I would like to take it a step further to observe that there are NO true Alphas on online dating sites. They like to hunt in-person. There’s a topic for you, Haley. :)
“if anyone is saying that she is shaming gays by her statement that most or all of men in church are closeted homosexuals, she’s not shaming them”
The complaint isn’t that she’s shaming gays, you flaming retard, it is that saying a certain class of men is gay is a shaming tactic. You flaming retard.
“Flaming retard”? Are you for real?
I wasn’t raised in the church, I have gay friends. Gay friends who know, confirm, and have photo-evidence that yes, MOST of the guys in the evangelical churches here are in the closet. Not ALL. MOST.
The F**K???
“Flaming retard”? Are you for real?
Is anyone on here for real?
“Is anyone on here for real?”
LOL!!!
Church is not a good place, in my view, to meet a spouse for various reasons
Church services are typically not all that great, but the activities surrounding churches are often among the very best places for meeting people, particularly in terms of people you’d actually want to get married to.
“The complaint isn’t that she’s shaming gays, you flaming retard, it is that saying a certain class of men is gay is a shaming tactic. You flaming retard.”
Listen you flaming retard, shaming another flaming retard is, well, just another form of shaming tactic.
Anyhow, what would a flaming swineherd know? :D
“But a woman is always right, and a man calling her to task when she says something wrong is always wrong, right?”
Right! I’ve always thought that you were a smart guy Will. ;)
I realize that LiLL’s comment was completely ridiculous, and deserved to be attacked, but the name calling wasn’t necessary either.
A: I completely agree with you! Lots of good nice Christian men to pick from :o).
Clarification:
I completely agree with you regarding your comment,
“the activities surrounding churches are often among the very best places for meeting people, particularly in terms of people you’d actually want to get married to.”
:o)
I have yet to meet any Christian women who are any more suitable for marriage than nonChristian women. Nearly all the women populating every church body i know of are just as hypergamous, just as materialistic, just as consumeristic, every bit as shallow and secular, and just as unpleasant and demanding as the nonChristians I know.
No difference between the two, as far as I can tell.
Haley, where is Svar, BTW? DO you have him shackled in a dungeon somewhere? Won’t you let him out to play?
I’m in moderation now?
“where is Svar, BTW?”
He’s at my place shackled in the basement, Deti.
Rubs hands in glee..
He ain’t going anywhere anytime soon. mmmmwwwhhhaaaa hhaaaaa!
No Deti, that’s a common fluke on the site.
“it is that saying a certain class of men is gay is a shaming tactic. You flaming retard.”
…only if you think being Gay is a bad thing, which obviously you do. Obviously YOU are above sin, or falliability of any kind… sexual lust, all of that. I’m just saying since so many of the men in the EVANGELICAL churches in my area are closeted gays, it’s not the place I’m looking for a mate. I said nothing about the other Christian churches, nor about the evangelical church in the rest of the world since I know nothing about it.
Love,
One Incredibly Hot Flaming Retard
p.s. People in the churches are ridiculously naive, innocent and sweet. This isn’t a bad thing but does leave us vulnerable in some respects. e.g. Many of the gay guys I knew through gay friends were married or engaged Christians. They got married so they could have biological kids, mostly. The church is a nice to hide in a warm place where people prefer to pretend everyone is straight, and where your girl hasn’t got a chance to figure out you’re not turned on by girls ….if you just claim that chastity is so VERY important to you before marriage. ….Sucks to be her when it turns out that after marriage nothing changes.
And let’s not even get into the ones who don’t identify as homosexual…have you all seen Oprah’s episode on men on the ‘down low’? Good grief.
@ Deti: It’s true, Svar went into moderation when he teased Butterfly Flower – whom, I may note, is now persona non grata here, and rightly so; thus, Svar was vindicated, whether or not anyone recognized that…
And yeah; agree about the Christian women – some real prizes here, alone, eh? Sheesh. Low reading comprehension, poor reasoning capacities, irrational, and hypersensitive, prickly. Real catches…
@ LiLL: Oh, so you’re a Christian and yet also a — hag – just like worldly women! And you trust what your — friends say, because they would never pull your leg, have you on. Of course, maybe they all attend the Metropolitan Community Church – which isn’t evangelical, though maybe they claim they are…
And you think that ‘mostly’ is not a generalization. Amusing.
Well, maybe since your anecdotal is evidence enough for you, perhaps we could ask everyone here who’s evangelical or ex-evangelical (like me; I’m traditionalist Reformed) whether most of the males they knew in evangelical churches are gay. Given, BTW, that gay people only make up some 1-4% of the population, notwithstanding their lying “1 in 10” figure they used to bandy about, the likelihood of ‘most’ evangelical guys being gay is low.
I love how you can’t even say, “Okay; I was exaggerating, for effect.” No, you just can’t be wrong…
@ Elisa Diane: Eumaios understood what I was saying. Not sure why you didn’t follow. Oh well, whatever.
@ Kathy: Yes, I am smart. Which is why, faced with the likes of these, I’m still voluntarily single, even though I’ve had ample opportunities to end that state…
What, no links, and still into moderation? Let’s see if this one goes into. Maybe it’s because of the at symbol, dagnabit.
lol You’re clear, Will. Haven’t seen anyone say “dagnabit” in a while, and I’m Southern.
“only if you think being Gay is a bad thing, which obviously you do”
Come on Legs, you know that most straight people, esp. men, see being called gay as an insult, no matter how PC they think they are. We all know why: some gay women are butch and some gay men are girly, so calling a straight person gay generally means they’re acting in an unattractive way for their sex. But, thanks for confirming how many men exactly you were saying are gay.
We’re Christians; why the hell should we give a toss about being PC? Homosexual behaviour is wrong – and all of us should know that, and act accordingly. And knowing that, we really shouldn’t smear others who are straight, and Christian, like us, as being gay. Actually, it’s quite funny that some who think they’re so ‘progressive’ (which shouldn’t include any of us, if we really are Christian) are the first to invoke Code Lavender shaming language. Shows how shallow either their progressiveness, or their faith, or both, are.
I didn’t say we’re PC, Will, just that others who DO think they are are STILL offended when being called gay. Ever see the episode of “Seinfled”, where someone else calls him gay? He spends the whole episode denying it, EVERY time following his denial with “not that there’s anything WRONG with that”..
Yes, I remember that episode. Shows the hypocrisy of progressives; they’re not as progressive as they think they are. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, heh heh…
lol What a hysterical episode; my favorite part is when he jokes to George over the phone about how they tricked the women who thought they were gay, then find out the phone was faulty and panic.
Jerry: “She thinks we’re straight. I guess we *fooled* her.”
HA!
I grew up thinking that there were maybe twenty homosexuals in the entire world. Now, it seems like that closet they were in must have been rather large.
“I wasn’t raised in the church, I have gay friends. Gay friends who know, confirm, and have photo-evidence that yes, MOST of the guys in the evangelical churches here are in the closet.”
LifeinLongLegs may be correct. I think I’ll skip church this Sunday.
The feminization of the church is too much of a turn-off for me. The Ned Flanders guys creep me out thoroughly, and I’m a guy.
Maybe I should start a church for guys who can’t stand church. Girls can show up, but they have to sit on the other side of the room. And no girl-ifying my services please.
To open every service, we will talk about Jesus driving the money changers out.
And all the hymns will be in a bass clef key, heh heh.
I’m confused. What age range is geezerdom? or is it relative to the woman of interest’s age? eg. is a 37yr old male a geezer relative to a 30 yr old woman? Are these parameters variable among different megachurches?
jack, you can call it the First Timothian church.
All the hymns must be sung while lifting free weights.
Will – you can read ‘progressive’ or ‘shaming’ into whatever you want. I am neither of those things.
My post in no way says that being Gay is right. It says believing a person who struggles with homosexuality is less than you are [and therefore taking gay as an insult] IS wrong. Your sin stinks, too. Mine does as well.
When I talk about my past, I mean my past – before Christ…which led me into a lot of situations that have informed my view of the ‘worldly’ aspects of the church. e.g. people who condemn gay sex but sleep with their girlfriends. e.g. being able to spot guys I KNOW are in gay relationships. Notice I said they should be at church, that they are in the right place… like the rest of us. God’s working on things in all of us.
…but that doesn’t mean I want, or should want, to date a guy who is actively in a gay relationship OR who has that past if I’m not comfortable with that…
….nor does it mean I should ‘ignore’ or ‘pretend’ that the issue doesn’t exist and pretend everyone is poker straight. I stand by my comment. If you want to know how right I am, go to the gay bar next weekend and see how many of your church friends are there.
But you still over-generalize from your own experiences. I live in a small city, attend a small country church an hour away, and I assure you, none of the people there have ever been in a gay bar, nor will they ever find themselves in one. We’re not big city folk, surrounded by big city people with big city lifestyles. We’re from the country, and we like it that way.
RockyCoop – A guy who doesn’t look my age, but rather looks older, is geezerish to me. If he’s hitting on me, that is. If he leaves me alone, then I pretty much don’t think anything bad of him.
And I’m 28.
“go to the gay bar next weekend and see how many of your church friends are there.”
Or at least say “Hi” to Rick Perry.
“A guy who doesn’t look my age, but rather looks older, is geezerish to me. If he’s hitting on me, that is”
Who are you, that geezers should be mindful of you?
“Who are you, that geezers should be mindful of you”
Lol Eumaios
Everyone is hating on single dudes in their 30s. What about old maids uh I mean single women in their 30s?
For any women looking for a man, I suggest you try this and report back. Take a self defense class in Krav Maga (do an internet search). Elisa, are you up for this challenge?
Bigger cities will have some kind of self defense class one night a week and they are typically mixed sex. The men are solid decent guys and the class gets physical and demanding. You will be pushed and your ass will be dragging after the first couple of times,
Good decent men like women willing to push themselves. You will get very sweatly and have the whole pheromone thing going for you too.
Just be comfortable and dont repress the IOI and see what happens. If nothing else you will get in shape, learn confidence and carry yourself better. Then you will be noticed by the good alpha guys and scare the beta guys away by your confident body language. Also the players will keep their distance because of your vibe.
Yeah, you’d probably feel less down in the dumps (because you do seem pretty down in the dumps – which is understandable given your situation) with some hard physical activity. (I could use some of that myself).
7Man, great suggestion! I’ve always wanted to learn self-defense, and there are quality men there wanting to help? And who appreciate the female will to exert? Sounds like a bargain. And exercise is invigorating to me.
“Then you will be noticed by the good alpha guys and scare the beta guys away by your confident body language. Also the players will keep their distance because of your vibe”
I love keeping players away. I guess you mean beta in the negative sense, because sometimes the alphas (the more self-absorbed/negative ones) like strong women less. Strong in that sense, anyway.
Will S – Yes, my comment is sweeping. However – please also note I said modern. Country evangelical is assuredly NOT modern. P.S. You’re fortunate to have found a church that is not crawling with homosexuals. ;)
Oh, how silly of me to not appreciate your ‘nuance’ – you meant ‘modern’ as in ‘progressive’, rather than ‘modern’ as in ‘contemporary’, so country evangelical is backwards, hicksville, definitely not ‘modern’, unlike uber-chic urban / suburban ‘modern’ evangelical churches. Got it.
I’m fortunate to have found such a church? Well, I thank God I did, certainly; however, there are more of them on the ground than you seem to appreciate; even in urban areas; I’ve belonged to two Reformed churches in major urban Canadian centres, and neither of them had any obvious flamers in them, either – just like my country hick church. But maybe you’re in the wrong kind of church. You know, one of those kinds where young women attend seminary because they intend to go into some kind of ministry (whose denominations wrongly allow women to be office-bearers), not merely to get a ‘Mrs.’ degree.
I think Will S. nailed it. Congregations stripped of male dominance are the most hospitable for men suffering from same-sex attraction.
“Congregations stripped of male dominance are the most hospitable for men suffering from same-sex attraction”
Except for priesthoods and such. Plus, gays actually COULD be turned on by masculine he-men leading really traditional churches,
Jennifer, that is “what if” thinking. Do you always have to disagree with comments by particular men so they pay attention to you and treat you bruskly?
That wasn’t what-if thinking at all, 7Man, it was an observation of the irony. Your summation of my motives is pathetic and offensive.
In fact, it’s what-if thinking to assume female-led churches would be welcoming to gay men, whereas the problem of homosexual priests in the priesthood has actually occured. I would agree that churches without clearly straight, traditional men guarding things could seem welcoming to gays, but my point was that women are perfectly capable of being conservative as well. My words towards you were too strong, 7man, but I’m very tired of having my own disagreement or bruskness mislabeled as attraction, of all things. Considering how often we’ve disagreed, and what both of our reactions have been like towards each other, you know better. But most have never told me to shut up; when people do, however, it makes me more determined to have no care for their opinion.
LOL Gay men may see dominant heteros and not know whether to run in or away from the church.
“P.S. You’re fortunate to have found a church that is not crawling with homosexuals”
You sound like they’re common, What are they, termites?
Yeah, really, Ruth. I mean, WTF? I’ve never, ever, in any of the churches I’ve been to, even in all my many years brought up in a mainline Prot. church, encountered a church overrun by poofsters. And I even left the United Church of Canada due to its pro-homo leanings; yet even so, neither the U.C.C. I was raised in, nor any others I attended, back in the day, was filled with such people…
I think it would be best if a new branch of Churchianity were started specifically for those with wacky beliefs.
I suggest calling it the United Poofster Feminist Combined Heterodox Universal Community or UPFCHUC for short.
Ruth, that’s what I was going to ask. As it happens, church is exactly where homosexuals should be. But not to overturn things or keep on the way they are. In “The 19th Wife”, the very likable gay hero and his new..pal (I was going to say squeeze, but never mind) go to a church that doesn’t shun them. Cool, and it had awesome sermon points, but..the difference there was too welcome. There was a freaking tranny collecting offerings, for cripe’s sake. I wouldn’t mind that, if he wasn’t DRESSED like a tranny at that moment; it’s just so blaringly inappropriate, and they have children there. That’s pretty rare, but it’s not harmless.
You guys need to watch “Shaky Town”, it’s really something. http://www.shakytown.com/
Pooftsers?
“I think it would be best if a new branch of Churchianity were started specifically for those with wacky beliefs”
Why bother calling it Christian?
Ooh, Shaky Town looks good Jen.
The guy in The 19th Wife wasn’t gay in the movie, though.
Ruth, they changed it in the film.
@ Ruth: I note your excellent riposte has thus far gone unanswered. Most revealing, that…
(From three days ago, @ 1:33pm.)